|
If I were a Tyrone fan I wouldn't be thinking about this solely based on the Dublin game where you clearly had a bad day at the office. The game plan was out the window early on.
The Mayo defeat last year was more worrying in my opinion. The system didn't fall apart that day and you lost. When the game was on the line and you were down late in the game you were not able to change style and go for it. That doesn't reflect well on the manager.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 30/08/2017 17:00:09
2040823
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Thomas Clarke: "Tony Donnelly and Fergal McCann left in 2014, shortly after we were comprehensively beaten by Armagh in a 2nd round qualifier in Omagh. Whatever anyone's thoughts on Mickey, you must be the only man in Tyrone who yearns for a return to those halcyon days..." only said maybe, but those pair seemed to make a lot of the decisions and now possibly would be able to move on from the defensive game plan. Dooher / logan / ricey seem to be doing good work but as I've said don't / can't see canavan stepping up with the current tensions surrounding mh who has categorically saying he has no intention of leaving and wants 2 more years. A lot of clubs now need to be having serious discussions about the situation so that the club reps are voting on and relaying the true feelings of the tyrone football clubs. One thing for sure is they will need to be sorting in the next month or so as it will be back to the fitness and conditioning regime that inter-county players begin after the all Ireland finals to be ready for the pre league competitions
bulmccabe (Tyrone) - Posts: 361 - 30/08/2017 17:48:24
2040836
Link
0
|
|
We all know hartes acheived great things with tyrone and there a team with great potential..but the way he set his team up to play dublin on sunday was crazy.it was as if he never watched this dublin team since 2014 v donegal..did he not factor in how well dublin can get around this dinosaur defensive system these days..i was one of the people on here last year who said he should go after the mayo game..but his stubborness to adapt any kind of plan b on sunday was crazy..how he didnt see what was unfolding in the 1st 10mins was beyond me..so in my opinion he has to get the chop.some good young lads on that tyrone team who were hung out to dry from hartes caveman tactics last week..if a dublin manager did what harte did lastweek he'd be sacked within a few days..
GGdub (Dublin) - Posts: 260 - 30/08/2017 18:13:51
2040843
Link
0
|
|
Micky Harte was a great manager, and a nice guy with it. But it is time to go.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2517 - 30/08/2017 18:47:46
2040850
Link
0
|
|
Replying To GGdub: "We all know hartes acheived great things with tyrone and there a team with great potential..but the way he set his team up to play dublin on sunday was crazy.it was as if he never watched this dublin team since 2014 v donegal..did he not factor in how well dublin can get around this dinosaur defensive system these days..i was one of the people on here last year who said he should go after the mayo game..but his stubborness to adapt any kind of plan b on sunday was crazy..how he didnt see what was unfolding in the 1st 10mins was beyond me..so in my opinion he has to get the chop.some good young lads on that tyrone team who were hung out to dry from hartes caveman tactics last week..if a dublin manager did what harte did lastweek he'd be sacked within a few days.." "Caveman tactics"? I saw more caveman antics in the Mayo V Kerry game to be honest. 2 Red cards and 2 blacks. None in the Tyrone game- how do you explain that?
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2517 - 30/08/2017 18:50:29
2040851
Link
0
|
|
Replying To galwayford: ""Caveman tactics"? I saw more caveman antics in the Mayo V Kerry game to be honest. 2 Red cards and 2 blacks. None in the Tyrone game- how do you explain that?" 14 men in their own goalmouth and one 5'7 forward in dublins goalmouth..thats caveman tactics pal..you tell me how they were ever going to score..
GGdub (Dublin) - Posts: 260 - 30/08/2017 19:02:34
2040853
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Wally: "Created the below topic on the Tyrone Forum, but sure here is my take on it
I really don't want this to get into a Micky Harte hating thread, but surely now we can assume that some sort of plan has to be put into place for the future of Tyrone football. If not next year, then we have to start planning on replacing Micky at some stage and it clearly can't be left up to the man himself as he has made it perfectly clear that he has no intention of leaving anytime soon.
Our brand of football at the moment will not take us any further than winning what is now a very weak provincial title.
Micky has brought untold success to Tyrone over the years and we are all very grateful but it is getting a little bit ridiculous now. 15 years is too long to be still playing the same system and our management team seem unwilling or are unable to try anything different.
I for one could live with a couple of years floating between division 1&2 and missing out on an Ulster title if it meant that we could develop our players to play instinctively again.
It is now time for a change." Wally
Did you and I not have a discussion on here regarding Micky Harte and your flip flopping? You change your tune when Tyrone lose a game.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 30/08/2017 20:26:30
2040871
Link
0
|
|
I'm far from being a fan of Harte, but I would have to acknowledge what he has done for Tyrone football. Everybody is keen to give him a kicking after last Sunday's game and yes, he has to carry the can for that. However, before he took over the hot-seat in Tyrone they were just a run-of -the -mill team and rarely considered as potential Sam winners. He brought undreamed of success to the county and raised them into the higher echelons of the game. I think it is time for him to move on but I would hope, for everybody's sake, that it does not turn nasty. (I seem to remember headlines from the past about nasty scenes outside the home of a former manager, a fine man, Art McRory) Tyrone are still in a good place with a lot of good young talented footballers who are quite capable of being strong contenders for Sam again.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 30/08/2017 20:27:23
2040872
Link
0
|
|
Replying To GetOverTheBar: "I think after a beating like that which there wasn't even a slight silver lining. Nothing should be on or off the table in Tyrone.
Mickey Harte can do so much - this system like it or not is his brainchild, but as Jim McGuinness so often said, "alot is made of management but ultimately it has to come from the players"...I didn't see one Tyrone player get in a Dublin player face until Darren McCurry came off the bench.
Tyrone to stand any chance against the Dubs had to bring ultra aggression and spite - they didn't even so much as lay a hand legally/illegally which I think is the most extraordinary thing of the whole affair (except that cowardly kick by Colm Cavanagh) - the players surely got stage fright - I was looking at Matty Donnelly, a big lad - never got so much as a kick, Sean Cavanagh vanished altogether, Peter Harte although not being a physical presence is a symbol for Tyrone - did he even touch the ball?
That being said, Dublin are an awesome outfit - That cheering of passes on or around the 25th minute will long stick in my mind. Alot of people in Tyrone need to have a serious long look at things honestly - this could be a positive turning point, if its approached in the right way, head on and meet the challenge embraced, or it could be the start of a decline. Football looks like it's beginning to make the change back to 'traditional' styles, will Tyrone evolve with the game?" The cheering will stick with me, tasteless too say the least.
Agree about Mattie Donnelly, Cavanagh etc. We had to many passengers on Sunday especially from big players.
As you said Dublin can do that to teams. The goal after 5 mins killed us.
Darren McCurry? He was poor when he came on I thought. Meyler I thought done well when he came on, took on men however he should of started.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 30/08/2017 20:42:38
2040877
Link
0
|
|
Be careful what you wish for. Who in Tyrone would take over from Harte? Cana van? Failed at Fermanagh and Errigal. Can't see him taking over from Harte, club mates and have too much respect.
Look at Donegal, they had one off the best managers in McGuiness. Gallagher was the natural choice too take over, helped lead them too all all Ireland, respected by players. Failed when he got the top job. Now they are looking at Bonner and Banty.
A lot is been said about tyrones style. I feel it needs tweaked. If we went 15 on 15 against Dublin what would of happened? If we conceded 2-17 with two sweepers how much would we have conceded with none? Colm Cavanagh is one of the best sweepers in the country, utilise that. Against the best teams we need more men up front and attack with more pace.
This hasn't been a bad season for Tyrone, stayed in Div 1. Won Ulster. We were unfortunate to come up against one off the greatest teams in history.
The players want Micky to stay. That says it all really. It was the players who let themselves down on Sunday.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 30/08/2017 20:56:03
2040884
Link
0
|
|
Replying To The_Fridge: "The cheering will stick with me, tasteless too say the least.
Agree about Mattie Donnelly, Cavanagh etc. We had to many passengers on Sunday especially from big players.
As you said Dublin can do that to teams. The goal after 5 mins killed us.
Darren McCurry? He was poor when he came on I thought. Meyler I thought done well when he came on, took on men however he should of started." Yes he was poor, I meant though in so much as he was willing to get in Jonny Coopers face, he was willing to hit him a slap to let him know he was there. Dublin literally walked through some of the Tyrone players and maybe even worse - took the ball from certain players (McCarron most notably) a few times like he was a child.....Cathal McCarron is a well built lad, he was made to look like a reserve player running into the dublin defenders which was really concerning.
I assumed Tyrone would bring "total war" to coin a phrase from our pundit friends at RTE. It's the complete lack of physicality which really has me wondering what happened.
GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - Posts: 1388 - 30/08/2017 21:18:01
2040893
Link
0
|
|
Replying To The_Fridge: " Replying To Wally: "Created the below topic on the Tyrone Forum, but sure here is my take on it
I really don't want this to get into a Micky Harte hating thread, but surely now we can assume that some sort of plan has to be put into place for the future of Tyrone football. If not next year, then we have to start planning on replacing Micky at some stage and it clearly can't be left up to the man himself as he has made it perfectly clear that he has no intention of leaving anytime soon.
Our brand of football at the moment will not take us any further than winning what is now a very weak provincial title.
Micky has brought untold success to Tyrone over the years and we are all very grateful but it is getting a little bit ridiculous now. 15 years is too long to be still playing the same system and our management team seem unwilling or are unable to try anything different.
I for one could live with a couple of years floating between division 1&2 and missing out on an Ulster title if it meant that we could develop our players to play instinctively again.
It is now time for a change." Wally Did you and I not have a discussion on here regarding Micky Harte and your flip flopping? You change your tune when Tyrone lose a game."
You and I have had several discussions about this and my opinion never changed once.
I have always advocated a change of management.
Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 30/08/2017 21:49:07
2040900
Link
0
|
|
I think Mickey Harte should step down now, he has been at the Tyrone helm for a long time now, and while they definitely look to be improving, a fresh voice might do no harm.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 30/08/2017 21:56:01
2040905
Link
0
|
|
Replying To The_Fridge: "Be careful what you wish for. Who in Tyrone would take over from Harte? Cana van? Failed at Fermanagh and Errigal. Can't see him taking over from Harte, club mates and have too much respect.
Look at Donegal, they had one off the best managers in McGuiness. Gallagher was the natural choice too take over, helped lead them too all all Ireland, respected by players. Failed when he got the top job. Now they are looking at Bonner and Banty.
A lot is been said about tyrones style. I feel it needs tweaked. If we went 15 on 15 against Dublin what would of happened? If we conceded 2-17 with two sweepers how much would we have conceded with none? Colm Cavanagh is one of the best sweepers in the country, utilise that. Against the best teams we need more men up front and attack with more pace.
This hasn't been a bad season for Tyrone, stayed in Div 1. Won Ulster. We were unfortunate to come up against one off the greatest teams in history.
The players want Micky to stay. That says it all really. It was the players who let themselves down on Sunday." Right well here answer me this. If not now..when??
If we go another 10 years without an all Ireland and another generation of players come and go will you still be saying 'sure who else can possibly take over, it's the players fault, look what happened in Donegal'
We need to at least put a plan in place for a replacement and fear of change cannot be used as an excuse any longer.
Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 30/08/2017 21:56:54
2040906
Link
0
|
|
Replying To cavanman47: "Why?
(Not having a go and haven't made my mind up on what I think Tyrone should do, just wondering what your logic is)" I'm not the biggest fan of Harte, but you have to respect the man, 3 all Irelands and 5 Ulsters, His current plan for Tyrone playing defensive in the last few years is an absolute joke, Dublin demolishing Tyrone is one of the best things to happen to the GAA, If they won against Dublin and won Sam by playing defensive would've been the worst thing to happen to the GAA in history, it happened in 2012 Donegal play there new style of football called blanket defence, Donegal winning Sam in 2012 was bad, nearly every team club and county decide to copy it, absolute boredom it was hard to watch, players were losing interest in the game as its overly bombarded with tactics and there was no enjoyment in the game. Supporters find it an absolute eyesore. But in the league and championship this year, it looks teams are going back to the proper traditional attacking football which we all want to see. Teams will now see that blanket defence doesn't work at all and that they would have a much bigger chance to winning if they play attacking football. In my opinion, next year we will have a very entertaining League and Championship next year. The reason I want to keep Harte for one more year is because I think he will learn from his mistakes and the players mistakes, he will go back to the old way off playing and try to get Tyrone an all Ireland. Tyrone have got the players to do it. If he plays attacking football and win the all Ireland keep him for another 2 years, if he doesn't change his ways get rid off him.
oakleafersir (Derry) - Posts: 808 - 31/08/2017 00:14:18
2040953
Link
0
|
|
In my opinion, next year we will have a very entertaining League and Championship next year. The reason I want to keep Harte for one more year is because I think he will learn from his mistakes and the players mistakes, he will go back to the old way off playing and try to get Tyrone an all Ireland. Tyrone have got the players to do it. If he plays attacking football and win the all Ireland keep him for another 2 years, if he doesn't change his ways get rid off him.
oakleafersir (Derry) - Posts:424 - 31/08/2017 00:14:18 20
I don't agree about this being the end of the Blanket defence, the system of play is still very effective and will be around in various different forms for many years to come. That's because most Counties simply don't produce enough talented attacking players to implement an effective attacking system of play.
Dublin have 9 - 12 forwards who would make any other County team in the Country, most other Counties are lucky to have 2 or 3 decent forwards. The majority of teams will continue to play to their strengths, and some will still feel a defensive style game plan will give them a better chance to compete. It won't go away anytime soon.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 31/08/2017 02:47:40
2040960
Link
0
|
|
I don't know to be honest. It reminds me of Sean Boylan in the mid noughties and the general consensus was that the man did so much for Meath football he should choose his own time. However i don't know if Harte is as popular in Tyrone..
The 10 pt loss by Meath to the Dubs in the Leinster Final was as cataclysmic a beating for Meath as Tyrone's 12 point loss to Dublin last Sunday. Who would have predicted Boylan would lead a very young Meath team to an all-ireland in 12 months? Now there was no outstanding team one could argue in 1996. The Dubs had been striving since 1989 for that 1995 all-ireland and had gone a little flat. Mickey Whelan brought back Joe McNally to play alongside Vinny Murphy and i think Jim Galvin in the full forward line. He dropped Sherlock. They were robust on paper in that line!
If Mickey Harte stays on he'll probably win Ulster but can he beat the Dubs? Or for that matter Tyrone's bogey team Mayo? And Kerry could introduce fresh talent and get their ship at full steam very quickly. Looking back at Kerry's performances this year it looks like they peaked around league final time. In most people's view they had to beat the Dubs given the run of beatings since 2011. Dublin on the other hand weren't as fussed.
Can Mickey Harte change tactically in a radical way? Or does it matter, playing a more open game would they suffer a similar beating anyway.. Are the players in Tyrone? And i don't need to say on that score you're only as good as your last game.
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 31/08/2017 03:18:55
2040965
Link
6
|
|
Replying To Wally: " Replying To The_Fridge: "[quote=Wally: "Created the below topic on the Tyrone Forum, but sure here is my take on it
I really don't want this to get into a Micky Harte hating thread, but surely now we can assume that some sort of plan has to be put into place for the future of Tyrone football. If not next year, then we have to start planning on replacing Micky at some stage and it clearly can't be left up to the man himself as he has made it perfectly clear that he has no intention of leaving anytime soon.
Our brand of football at the moment will not take us any further than winning what is now a very weak provincial title.
Micky has brought untold success to Tyrone over the years and we are all very grateful but it is getting a little bit ridiculous now. 15 years is too long to be still playing the same system and our management team seem unwilling or are unable to try anything different.
I for one could live with a couple of years floating between division 1&2 and missing out on an Ulster title if it meant that we could develop our players to play instinctively again.
It is now time for a change." Wally Did you and I not have a discussion on here regarding Micky Harte and your flip flopping? You change your tune when Tyrone lose a game."
You and I have had several discussions about this and my opinion never changed once.
I have always advocated a change of management."]Come on Wally, I'm not going to drag up our discussions from a few weeks ago, I and a lot of Tyrone supporters on he could clearly see you change your mind constantly.
Just 1 more thing, you stated that you haven't been to Tyrone games in years. How come you were on here saying you are getting your ticket from your club for the semi? How's that bandwagon? Taking a ticket off someone actually supports Tyrone when the big game comes.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 31/08/2017 08:57:00
2040996
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Wally: " Replying To The_Fridge: "[quote=Wally: "Created the below topic on the Tyrone Forum, but sure here is my take on it
I really don't want this to get into a Micky Harte hating thread, but surely now we can assume that some sort of plan has to be put into place for the future of Tyrone football. If not next year, then we have to start planning on replacing Micky at some stage and it clearly can't be left up to the man himself as he has made it perfectly clear that he has no intention of leaving anytime soon.
Our brand of football at the moment will not take us any further than winning what is now a very weak provincial title.
Micky has brought untold success to Tyrone over the years and we are all very grateful but it is getting a little bit ridiculous now. 15 years is too long to be still playing the same system and our management team seem unwilling or are unable to try anything different.
I for one could live with a couple of years floating between division 1&2 and missing out on an Ulster title if it meant that we could develop our players to play instinctively again.
It is now time for a change." Wally Did you and I not have a discussion on here regarding Micky Harte and your flip flopping? You change your tune when Tyrone lose a game."
You and I have had several discussions about this and my opinion never changed once.
I have always advocated a change of management."]Come on Wally, I'm not going to drag up our discussions from a few weeks ago, I and a lot of Tyrone supporters on he could clearly see you change your mind constantly.
Just 1 more thing, you stated that you haven't been to Tyrone games in years. How come you were on here saying you are getting your ticket from your club for the semi? How's that bandwagon? Taking a ticket off someone actually supports Tyrone when the big game comes.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 31/08/2017 08:57:00
2040997
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Wally: "Right well here answer me this. If not now..when??
If we go another 10 years without an all Ireland and another generation of players come and go will you still be saying 'sure who else can possibly take over, it's the players fault, look what happened in Donegal'
We need to at least put a plan in place for a replacement and fear of change cannot be used as an excuse any longer." Micky and his back room team have brought numerous players from the u21 all Ireland winning team. It's a new team, won two Ulsters and got to the semis this year. They now see the standard where they need to be. I feel Micky should be given another 2 years to see where he can bring this team. It's not all doom and gloom.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 31/08/2017 09:07:33
2041002
Link
0
|