National Forum

The gap is massive...

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Replying To Mayonman:  "Margins at top level are so small that if you are a small bit off you can get destroyed and look to be miles away.

Tyrone were muck yesterday, seemed to lack belief. Not saying they would have won but they could have made it a lot more competitive with different tactics. Kildare not 100 miles away. Mayo rubbish early on but really moving well now.

Things change. That's just the nature of it. Remember Donegal when McGuiness took over, 2 years later bang.

There are teams out there that are not top level now but have raw material. A bit of proper organisation and they should be AI contenders.
eg. Cork, Kildare, Meath, Galway. They have large player bases and some talented individuals. If not with the current crop of players there is no reason with proper structures these 4 counties should not be there or there abouts based on their football population.

Some of the smaller counties will only show up every so often when they get a talented crop but the above should have conveyor belts of talent if they get their act together."
The reason we were so successful in 2012 is because McGuinness did what he had to do. Namely, he ran the campaign like a business. we got loads of financial help those few years that helped massively. He has written this himself and makes no apology for it. The alternative was not being able to compete with those who were running like businesses.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 28/08/2017 15:37:36    2039420

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Since 2011 only 4 teams have qualified for All Ireland Final and one of those, Donegal, is no longer at that level. I'm sure Kerry will come again but it's hard to see them winning an All Ireland in the next 2 to 3 years from their current level. Mayo, I'm afraid, are probably going to go down as the greatest team never to win an All Ireland. I think Dublin's only enemy is hunger and the temptation of a 5 in a row should keep them going. If they hadn't have taken their eye off the ball against Donegal in 2014, they would be going for a 5 in a row now.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 563 - 28/08/2017 16:02:44    2039429

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We appointed a new coach last week. We are not doing 'managers' any more.

I have to hope that we have reached rock bottom and things start to turn. We have a massive player base and we should be able to turn this around. It will take a few years but we can get up to division 1 level.

Galway must get back as well. They have been producing very good underage players too.

Derry, Down, Meath and Kildare also need to get their act together.

Monaghan, Donegal and Roscommon have done very well with their resources.

Looking at Kerry and Tyrone performance, that level should be attainable for all the above.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 28/08/2017 18:00:20    2039494

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Replying To bennybunny:  "We appointed a new coach last week. We are not doing 'managers' any more.

I have to hope that we have reached rock bottom and things start to turn. We have a massive player base and we should be able to turn this around. It will take a few years but we can get up to division 1 level.

Galway must get back as well. They have been producing very good underage players too.

Derry, Down, Meath and Kildare also need to get their act together.

Monaghan, Donegal and Roscommon have done very well with their resources.

Looking at Kerry and Tyrone performance, that level should be attainable for all the above."
really no excuses for cork not to be up there..regularly good at underage and huge base of players

alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 28/08/2017 18:18:17    2039512

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Yesterday's game made me despair for the future of Gaelic Football

The 3rd bets team in Ireland were swatted awy by a team who went into 3rd gear after 20 mimnutes and the atmosphere was funeral like bar a few oles and rampant cheering for Lowndes coming on as a sub

And it will only get worse as the domination becomes more and more clearer in the coming years as if it wasn't already

AgainstTheOdds (Kerry) - Posts: 47 - 28/08/2017 18:32:23    2039526

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Replying To AgainstTheOdds:  "Yesterday's game made me despair for the future of Gaelic Football

The 3rd bets team in Ireland were swatted awy by a team who went into 3rd gear after 20 mimnutes and the atmosphere was funeral like bar a few oles and rampant cheering for Lowndes coming on as a sub

And it will only get worse as the domination becomes more and more clearer in the coming years as if it wasn't already"
Yesterday was the death of the mass defence as a tactic that could win you the All Ireland.

Who knows how Tyrone would've done had they been setup differently. Tyrone have no plan B, Dublin took their plan A to the cleaners, there's not much more to be said. If a team set up wrong its very hard to correct it in game.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 28/08/2017 18:44:16    2039539

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I agree. We started this decade ahead of Dublin but now we are miles off the pace. It's depressing.

To get back to that level, at least 20 of last year's panel need to be let go. I can only think of a handful that should be kept. The game remainder are traumatized from dismal showing after dismal showing.

Next season a return to division 1 and a place in Super 8 is required. After that we see.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 28/08/2017 18:50:59    2039542

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Remember a few years ago when I started making the threads about how Dublin dominance was killing leinster as a province. Well I have to say I'm enjoying seeing them dominate on a national level now too.

People from counties like Tyrone, kerry and donegal used to laugh saying just get better and Dublin are beatable by the likes of them. It's funny seeing people these same people now whine about them dominating the all Ireland.

I have zero sympathy for any of you. You didn't want to hear it the last few years regarding leinster but now that you're all getting hammered too suddenly it's an issue. Karma.

What's going to happen is hurling will become the premier championship every summer because kilkenny have faded and Dublin will have kilkenny like dominance over football. Only difference is Dublin have the resources to stay dominant forever unlike kilkenny.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 28/08/2017 19:36:21    2039564

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yesterday was the death of the mass defence as a tactic that could win you the All Ireland.

Who knows how Tyrone would've done had they been setup differently. Tyrone have no plan B, Dublin took their plan A to the cleaners, there's not much more to be said. If a team set up wrong its very hard to correct it in game."
for goodness sake will you stop going on about tyrone setting up the wrong way. They did not get the individual performances they needed yesterday, and they had to play to their strengths. Tyrone are an ordinary amateur team unlike their opponents. yesterday had nothing to do with tactics...address the real issue here

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 28/08/2017 20:14:18    2039589

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football comes in cycles.
At the min dublin have great team and great set of players but not that long ago tyrone and kerry routinely beat dublin and gave them a couple of good beatings.
Kerry will be back tyrone will be back.
The problem is the gaa is neglecting the weaker counties. They are not doing enough to get smaller counties more competive cause they make more money if dublin are doing well and it seems thats all worry about.

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 334 - 28/08/2017 20:50:17    2039602

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Replying To mayotyroneman:  "for goodness sake will you stop going on about tyrone setting up the wrong way. They did not get the individual performances they needed yesterday, and they had to play to their strengths. Tyrone are an ordinary amateur team unlike their opponents. yesterday had nothing to do with tactics...address the real issue here"
Wtf are you talking about that's my first post saying they set up the wrong way.

They clearly did.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 28/08/2017 20:56:40    2039604

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Replying To tom84:  "football comes in cycles.
At the min dublin have great team and great set of players but not that long ago tyrone and kerry routinely beat dublin and gave them a couple of good beatings.
Kerry will be back tyrone will be back.
The problem is the gaa is neglecting the weaker counties. They are not doing enough to get smaller counties more competive cause they make more money if dublin are doing well and it seems thats all worry about."
Agree with this, GAA is run by administrators who have no clue how to manage it properly.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 500 - 28/08/2017 21:01:14    2039609

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Coming from a smaller county, it's a depressing sight to see how the Dubs won at a canter yesterday. But I have to say they are a joy to watch, so comfortable on the ball, protecting it like their life depends on it and making good choices. They have a deep understanding of how their gameplay works.

I think saying it's the end of the game as we know it is extreme but it's hard to know what Mayo can do to topple that Dublin team. As a fan of a mid-tier county, it's scary to see that gap even up to the second tier now. The super 8's will certainly not help emerging counties.

I'll digest the final before saying more. Would be hard to see Mayo doing it but not many would begrudge them of it. I just don't think they spook the Dubs at all and that is telling. Just really hope this game isn't over at half time - like we've been accustomed to watching Dublin games this year.

Reformation (Cavan) - Posts: 356 - 28/08/2017 21:23:37    2039630

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Replying To tom84:  "football comes in cycles.
At the min dublin have great team and great set of players but not that long ago tyrone and kerry routinely beat dublin and gave them a couple of good beatings.
Kerry will be back tyrone will be back.
The problem is the gaa is neglecting the weaker counties. They are not doing enough to get smaller counties more competive cause they make more money if dublin are doing well and it seems thats all worry about."
Thats not the case at all

There is hardly anyone starting now on that was on the 2001/13 teams

If you look at the great Kerry, Cork,Tyrone, Meath teams from the 80's onwards the players had to be in the starting XV for a lot longer as there wasn't the depth to replace them so effortlessly.

The frightening reality is this Dublin is actually in transition as we speak and they are utterly dominant

AgainstTheOdds (Kerry) - Posts: 47 - 28/08/2017 21:34:43    2039643

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yesterday was the death of the mass defence as a tactic that could win you the All Ireland.

Who knows how Tyrone would've done had they been setup differently. Tyrone have no plan B, Dublin took their plan A to the cleaners, there's not much more to be said. If a team set up wrong its very hard to correct it in game."
Tyrone would have beaten anyone else in the country bar Mayo

If they played more open they'd have lost even more comprehensively.

If Mayo don't win this year and I don't feel they will there is nothing stopping Dublin putting 6,7 even 8 in a row as there is nobody out there that will compete with them.

AgainstTheOdds (Kerry) - Posts: 47 - 28/08/2017 21:37:28    2039644

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I believe a lot of lads had two posts already wrote ready to go , Dublin win we go with the likes of this , Dublin lose we go with overated gym monkeys , lucky to beat Mayo last year etc etc the reactions kneejerk to the fore both both sad and predictable, I said we would dominate a few years ago because of the calibre of player we had , this year in both codes we entered minor and under 17 teams and didn't deliver , when certain Dublin players go we will come back to the pack , but while we are ahead to watch this panic end is nigh from my country cousins is hilarious, having a very enjoyable time while I can watching you squirm full in the knowledge nothing lasts forever , just a quick question any of you bother to go back over the threads when we were beaten by Kerry in the league ????

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 28/08/2017 21:39:50    2039645

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Replying To AgainstTheOdds:  "Thats not the case at all

There is hardly anyone starting now on that was on the 2001/13 teams

If you look at the great Kerry, Cork,Tyrone, Meath teams from the 80's onwards the players had to be in the starting XV for a lot longer as there wasn't the depth to replace them so effortlessly.

The frightening reality is this Dublin is actually in transition as we speak and they are utterly dominant"
A lot of the team have changed but a crumb of hope is that Cluxton is nearly 36. He could go on for years yet but whoever eventually replaces him will almost certainly not be as good as him, and he is a vital cog in the team.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 28/08/2017 21:48:33    2039657

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Donald Og believes its time for an Ulster hurling team, maybe its also time for an Ulster football team

Brian_Coyote (Antrim) - Posts: 346 - 28/08/2017 21:50:34    2039659

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Impossible to argue with that. The GAA have created a monster and while, over the last 5 or 6 years, it has proven extremely fruitful to them, it will inevitably (and it is 100% inevitable) kill the game as we now know it.

Mayo will push Dublin all the way this year but win or lose this is it for this Mayo team IMO.

Kerry are years off being a true force again. It's next to impossible to replace Gooch, Declan O'Sullivan, Galvin, the O'Sheas etc. Good minor teams don't necessarily produce outstanding senior players and Clifford aside, they may not produce superstars.

I'm not sure who's left after that. For a county to compete with what Dublin are now working with, they'd need to produce a side of the quality of Kerry 78-81, 04-09, or Tyrone 03-08. That's 3 teams in the entire history of the GAA. It will take years."
I would put Meath 87-91 ahead of Tyrone 03-08

oldsam_newsam (Meath) - Posts: 638 - 28/08/2017 21:56:38    2039670

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Replying To AgainstTheOdds:  "Thats not the case at all

There is hardly anyone starting now on that was on the 2001/13 teams

If you look at the great Kerry, Cork,Tyrone, Meath teams from the 80's onwards the players had to be in the starting XV for a lot longer as there wasn't the depth to replace them so effortlessly.

The frightening reality is this Dublin is actually in transition as we speak and they are utterly dominant"
Yes dublin have a great crop of players now.
In the 70s and early 80s kerry and dublin dominated and there looked to be no end in sight. But then the late 80s it was meath and cork early 90s all the ulster teams. Late 90s galway and meath. The noughties kerry and tyrone. The begining of this decade cork and donegal won all irelands.now its dublins turn to dominate.
And if mayo would quit shooting themselfs in the foot they would have an all ireland or maybe two.
The problem is the gaa needs a some vision and strong management to change the championship structure that hundred years ago was fit purpose but no longer is.

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 334 - 28/08/2017 22:31:02    2039694

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