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Alan Brogan, mature attitude to alcohol.

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Booze is a pox on this country.

Drinking heavily is 100% self harm

A purposeful desire to damage yourself and very commonly others too.

It speaks volumes about our mind-set in this country.

Self loathing."
100% agree Jimbo. What an over rated past time.

Must be a first for the 2 of us :)

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 18/08/2017 16:46:56    2035167

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Replying To if_in_doubt:  "A friend of mine who owns a bar in NYC said once said the Yanks go out for 2/3 beers most nights after work and head on home. Paddy waits until the weekend and goes mad. I couldn't fault what he said.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts:8561 - 18/08/2017

If you're working in an office and doing a regular 9-5 or 9-6 job then it's grand being able to head for a drink or two and meet up with friends in the evening. You''d see it the whole time on the east coast especially, offices empty and people are straight into the nearest pub - 2 hours later and they're pretty much empty again. Miss the rush on the subway and grab a bit of grub, not a bad way to go about things.

But sure what's the point in even drinking if you're only going for 1 or 2..."
Can't tell whether you're having a laugh or not .
If not , then that is typical of the attitude that is part of the problem with drink excess.
You can't have one or two , it has to be 10 or 12.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 18/08/2017 16:58:55    2035172

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Replying To yew_tree:  "A friend of mine who owns a bar in NYC said once said the Yanks go out for 2/3 beers most nights after work and head on home. Paddy waits until the weekend and goes mad. I couldn't fault what he said."
Y-T: I wouldn't disagree too much with your mate; I've lived in different parts of the US for just over 10 years now and I find they really don't drink that often and when they do it's only a few and then home by 9. NYC is a country unto itself, and while I lived there I definitely found the inhabitants more sociable than your average New Worlder. Where I live in Portland, you'd be hard pushed to find a bar open past 9 during the week and on weekends they generally close by 11, with the exception of a few watering holes in the downtown area catering to the younger set (young bucks like yourself!).

Over here the culture is much more food orientated: where the Micks would have a jar to celebrate something, the New Worlders love nothing more than a potluck where everyone brings food. Of course, this focus on food has its own problems!

festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3097 - 18/08/2017 16:59:46    2035174

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "It takes more guts to face up to your problems and do something about it than ending yourself, though."
Oh totally G&R, I'm not at all in that place. Never was in terms of wanting to physically end it, more just kind of resigned to apathy. But I'm in a much better place now.

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 19/08/2017 09:23:32    2035300

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Replying To festinog:  "Y-T: I wouldn't disagree too much with your mate; I've lived in different parts of the US for just over 10 years now and I find they really don't drink that often and when they do it's only a few and then home by 9. NYC is a country unto itself, and while I lived there I definitely found the inhabitants more sociable than your average New Worlder. Where I live in Portland, you'd be hard pushed to find a bar open past 9 during the week and on weekends they generally close by 11, with the exception of a few watering holes in the downtown area catering to the younger set (young bucks like yourself!).

Over here the culture is much more food orientated: where the Micks would have a jar to celebrate something, the New Worlders love nothing more than a potluck where everyone brings food. Of course, this focus on food has its own problems!"
Festinog - NYC is unique and its own world and I actually think having bars open until 4am has benefits outside of having a late drink.

Case in point, when I first lived in NY for a summer, it was like Christmas for a few young lads from Mayo being able to go out any. Ugh this if the week to packed bars that opened till 4am...within a few weeks the novelty began to wear off and I found myself going home earlier and at different stages.

I think the blanket closing hour here in Ireland is a disaster...people buy more and drink faster as 2am approaches and then it's a free for all in the take aways where fights can break out.

You don't see that sort of carnage in NY and when it does happen the cops forcefully deal with it as it should be dealt with.

New approach and outlook needed here in my opinion.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 19/08/2017 10:36:14    2035312

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Festinog - NYC is unique and its own world and I actually think having bars open until 4am has benefits outside of having a late drink.

Case in point, when I first lived in NY for a summer, it was like Christmas for a few young lads from Mayo being able to go out any. Ugh this if the week to packed bars that opened till 4am...within a few weeks the novelty began to wear off and I found myself going home earlier and at different stages.

I think the blanket closing hour here in Ireland is a disaster...people buy more and drink faster as 2am approaches and then it's a free for all in the take aways where fights can break out.

You don't see that sort of carnage in NY and when it does happen the cops forcefully deal with it as it should be dealt with.

New approach and outlook needed here in my opinion."
I think it has nothing at all to do with opening hours Yew Tree. It has to do with attitudes to alcohol. Are we going out to have a good night and a few drinks or do we go out to get drunk because that's what we need to do first before we can enjoy ourselves. Those that want to load up on shots for a 2 AM closing time will do the same if it was a 5 AM or a midnight closing. Sadly I think it's peer pressure in many cases to impress their mates. And most of them are thinkibg privately 'Not another round, I just want to go home and sleep'.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 19/08/2017 14:37:30    2035338

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Replying To yew_tree:  "From a rural perspective, I think climate has a huge bearing on Ireland and UK attitude towards drink. Look I love going out myself at the weekend and sometimes over do it. When the evenings start to close in and the days are short, the GAA season is over, your local pub can be the only source of social outlet....or what's left of rural Ireland.

I think alot of drinking is done at home now days. I don't blame people as its cheaper and there is no need to worry about getting home. Problem is there are no measures. I think there are people out there who polish of a bottle of wine at home every second night and are in denial that they have a problem...are they are better then the lad who who goes out on Friday and Saturday night who gets loaded?"
You could be on to something about the climate yewtree as other countries which have similar alcohol problems include Scotland, Norway, Russia i.e. places were the climate prevents outdoor activities for large parts of the year.

M Lyster (Antrim) - Posts: 461 - 19/08/2017 18:21:23    2035370

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Replying To M Lyster:  "You could be on to something about the climate yewtree as other countries which have similar alcohol problems include Scotland, Norway, Russia i.e. places were the climate prevents outdoor activities for large parts of the year."
The US in winter time is sub zero. Canada even worse and neither are half the drinkers we lot are. Germany have very cold winters. They drink as much but over the week rather than at one sitting usually. . Slovakia and Poland yeah quite bad but I'm not sure it's just the weather although I'd agree and say it probably does play a role somewhat. Then again the aussies are fond of a drink, very fond.

GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 19/08/2017 21:59:56    2035428

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Replying To TheHermit:  "In terms of the GAA, a mature attitude to alcohol would be to get rid of these stupid and unnecessary drink bans and let any players who want to, enjoy a few (few) social drinks after a match. What harm does 4 or 5 pints do to any player if there next game isn't for another 2-3 weeks? These guys are amateurs, they put aside so much of their life to play on a county team, denying them a regular chance to socially bond with their team mates and release stress is madness.

Surely any sports psychologist worth his salt would wax on about the benefits of team bonding. To me these drink bans are another tool of the charlatan GAA managers who infect the game. They're so insecure of their own ability to manage that they have to go to extremes like this just to be seen to be 'taking charge'. In this day and age, how many serious GAA players would risk their careers by going off on benders before upcoming matches? Young people, and that's what most of our players are, need to be treated with maturity and allowed the freedom to act for themselves.

On a broader note, as someone who spends a lot of time among 17-22 year olds, I do think a lot of today's generation are much more aware of the dangers of excessive binge drinking and on night's out they do tend to take care of themselves more.

I wouldn't be that old (early 30s), but when I think back to when I was 17 or 18 and I do believe teenagers and young adults today are much more savvy. I was only remember this week as the LC results came out, how I 'celebrated' that night - Pissed drunk and ending up throwing up and crawling around a street in Tralee only to have a girl I was chasing all summer come across me in that state, needless to say I never got a date!"
Agree that these blanket bans on drink are ridiculous and do not result in improved performance. The real reason that managers insist on them is that everyone else is doing it and they are afraid to be any different. If a manager were to actually treat his players like mature adults and trust them to drink responsibly during the season, he would have hell to pay if the team did not go on to win the all-Ireland. As soon as they were knocked out, there would be all sorts of crazy rumours about the players being out on the p**s every night.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 996 - 23/08/2017 01:00:53    2036610

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Firstly wish people would stop talking as if everyone in Ireland who has a drink goes out to get absolutely smashed. Ok we do have an issue with drink but its not everyone who heads to a pub just to get drunk, there are plenty of responsible drinkers out there also. The exact same drinking culture exists in the UK. Maybe they should bring in the law they have in Oz where if anyone who is drunk and causes a crime later that day/night that the person who responsible for selling them drink gets fined. Makes the bar person question if they should serve that person anymore.

With regards to the drinks ban, just read the article on young McKenna on the front page who is playing with Essendon, said he meets up most weeks with the other Irish lads playing in Melbourne and they have a pint. Again as long as they are being sensible I don't see any reason why sportspeople can't have a couple of drinks during the week.

Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 2099 - 23/08/2017 17:20:46    2036867

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Replying To Rosineri1:  "Firstly wish people would stop talking as if everyone in Ireland who has a drink goes out to get absolutely smashed. Ok we do have an issue with drink but its not everyone who heads to a pub just to get drunk, there are plenty of responsible drinkers out there also. The exact same drinking culture exists in the UK. Maybe they should bring in the law they have in Oz where if anyone who is drunk and causes a crime later that day/night that the person who responsible for selling them drink gets fined. Makes the bar person question if they should serve that person anymore.

With regards to the drinks ban, just read the article on young McKenna on the front page who is playing with Essendon, said he meets up most weeks with the other Irish lads playing in Melbourne and they have a pint. Again as long as they are being sensible I don't see any reason why sportspeople can't have a couple of drinks during the week."
They have that law in some US states that the bartender could be liable for a customer's behaviour if they serve them when they are drunk. I can see the sense of it, but a person is ultimately responsible for how much they drink.

You're spot on that there's plenty of responsible drinkers who go out to enjoy their night and have a few and not just to get pissed first. In the late 80s when I started going out, drink driving was rampant, almost encouraged, and that culture has improved. So eventually I think we could have more youths heading out for a good night rather than the objective of getting smashed.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 23/08/2017 19:50:23    2036900

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Replying To GameOfTyrones:  "The US in winter time is sub zero. Canada even worse and neither are half the drinkers we lot are. Germany have very cold winters. They drink as much but over the week rather than at one sitting usually. . Slovakia and Poland yeah quite bad but I'm not sure it's just the weather although I'd agree and say it probably does play a role somewhat. Then again the aussies are fond of a drink, very fond."
GoT: Good points well made. But in fairness to YT, I think he hits on the real issue with his reference to the short days that the northern countries experience in the winter. I lived in North Dakota for a while (God help me) where once it was actually colder than at the equator on Mars! But you know what? I found the Irish winter harsher: It's easy to dress against cold weather and get outside and be active (unless it's a full blizzard then all bets are off!), but it's very hard to deal with the incessant wind, rain and then darkness in Ireland. Anytime I came home during that period I was always amazed at how much harder it was to cope with the variable and extreme Irish climate than the constant but extreme north American one. There's a reason pubs became a focal point in all Irish villages that transcends the consumption of alcohol. With long nights and Atlantic storms they serve as a perfect place for a community to share news, establish bonds, etc. etc.

I would agree with your point regarding closing hours. Rushing to get a last pint in before closing happens in every country in the world. It's only in Ireland and a few other countries where the last pint happens to be pint number 8, 9 or 10 where the problem kicks in. In other words the damage is done long ere closing. Irish society equates getting hammered with a sign of a good night out, and our capacity for alcohol as a sign of our hardiness. Until those cultural values are tackled nothing will change.

festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3097 - 23/08/2017 21:11:15    2036931

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Replying To festinog:  "GoT: Good points well made. But in fairness to YT, I think he hits on the real issue with his reference to the short days that the northern countries experience in the winter. I lived in North Dakota for a while (God help me) where once it was actually colder than at the equator on Mars! But you know what? I found the Irish winter harsher: It's easy to dress against cold weather and get outside and be active (unless it's a full blizzard then all bets are off!), but it's very hard to deal with the incessant wind, rain and then darkness in Ireland. Anytime I came home during that period I was always amazed at how much harder it was to cope with the variable and extreme Irish climate than the constant but extreme north American one. There's a reason pubs became a focal point in all Irish villages that transcends the consumption of alcohol. With long nights and Atlantic storms they serve as a perfect place for a community to share news, establish bonds, etc. etc.

I would agree with your point regarding closing hours. Rushing to get a last pint in before closing happens in every country in the world. It's only in Ireland and a few other countries where the last pint happens to be pint number 8, 9 or 10 where the problem kicks in. In other words the damage is done long ere closing. Irish society equates getting hammered with a sign of a good night out, and our capacity for alcohol as a sign of our hardiness. Until those cultural values are tackled nothing will change."
Nailed it right there in your last two sentences. Some obvious factors:

- Also agree about the weather. Hard to have a casual out-of-doors culture (apart from full-on sports) or a pavement (sidewalk) café
culture in the Irish climate. Pub steps into the void.

- The lack of a national cuisine. Hard to have a café / bar culture in a country that worships junk food and where e.g. there are
no equivalents of tapas bars open late. Unless you're going to a fancy restaurant for a blowout meal or a junk food chain for some
cheap food, there is nowhere that understands the concept of "food as social backdrop" in the way the Southern mainland Europeans do. Come
8pm, and there's nowhere to hang out except a bloody pub.

- The ingrained macho attitudes (across both genders). Hard to have a café culture in a country that sees e.g., having a coffee or a half as a
bit cissy and destroying yourself with binge-drinking as the epitome of cool-ness and adult-ness. In e.g., Italy or Spain, being seen
vomiting into a gutter at 3am marks you out as a loser and a pitiable idiot (and a young person doing so will certainly not score / pull). In Ireland, you're a hero and people bond with you next day about your drinking "war stories"; and. let's face it, being mutually bladdered helps Irish people mate. We don't have a dating culture without alcohol.

- The anti-intellectualism and constant spoofery. Hard to have a café culture in a country that bases conversations on endless shallow banter. The way people talk when they're drunk is the way Irish people aspire to talking when they're sober.

GAA was a disaster in the 1970s (filling the cup up etc); nowadays, it's a great help to young people trying to maintain friendships while not being a pi$$-head - hard training gives you a reason not to wreck yourself

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 23/08/2017 21:32:09    2036941

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At the end of the day its just a drug lads, some can enjoy, and some can't do without. Like all drugs, best to treat it with abstinence!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8585 - 23/08/2017 21:33:23    2036943

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If Mayo beat Kerry this Sat I am going on a big session ;)

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 24/08/2017 09:16:22    2037010

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Replying To realdub:  "At the end of the day its just a drug lads, some can enjoy, and some can't do without. Like all drugs, best to treat it with abstinence!"
Why, if you can enjoy without it becoming a necessity? I'd extend that to all drugs, too, not just alcohol

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 24/08/2017 09:44:28    2037021

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The climate one is interesting. I would agree that when we do get a good spell of weather it does put everyone in better form. Sadly, we don't get enough of it. But even when we do it seems to be another excuse to drink. People buy cans & head to the beach or the canal for example. It's not like they automatically think of going for an enjoyable cycle for example.

Our weather is too often talked about and used as an excuse. Like, we know the Irish weather. It's not going to radically change too much, even with global warming. (Before anyone pulls me up on it, the flooding up here lately was an extreme, freak occurrence in fairness).
If we allow the weather to dictate to us we might as well never get out of bed. I completed a marathon last weekend, and if there was one thing I learned from the training is that you just need to stop talking about it and go and bloody do it. I ran in sunny weather, windy weather and pissing rain. Sometimes all on the one training run. Using the weather as an excuse to just shrug the shoulders and head to the pub is a cop out in my opinion.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9115 - 24/08/2017 10:20:08    2037037

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Irish people whining about the weather is a huge bugbear of mine. You'd think we were living in a constant monsoon they way people go on. The weather is grand.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12116 - 24/08/2017 10:39:49    2037047

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My viewpoint with most things is everything in moderation, unfortunately some people have addictive personalities. As the thing they have on the betting ads nowadays "when the fun ends, stop".
Our country in inextricably linked with alcohol , our most popular tourist attraction is the Guinness Brewery, and what are we noted for around the world , Guinness, Whiskey and Irish pubs. Why has the Irish pub been so successful around the world? I think its because the Irish pub is a place for people to meet, chat and have a bit of craic, obviously there are occasions where that may bet a bit out of hand. But the most people I know who have visited Ireland and have had a drink have said how good the pubs are and how friendly the people. Don't usually hear to many stories of groups of lads absolutely smashed early in the evening. The only city I have been in the world where I have not seen an Irish bar was Vilinus. although I don't intentionally seek out Irish pubs when I travel, they usually are the only place to go if you want to watch a game of football when your abroad.
As for the comment above on the guy saying how you don't see the Cup being filled with alcohol like it used be in the 70's. I saw that situation a few weeks ago when my team won the league, there was not too much holding back in the celebrations, have to say a good few of them did over do it though.

Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 2099 - 24/08/2017 10:45:38    2037048

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Replying To Breffni39:  "Irish people whining about the weather is a huge bugbear of mine. You'd think we were living in a constant monsoon they way people go on. The weather is grand."
No such thing as bad weather just inappropriate clothes!

In anyways alcohol consumption in Ireland is on the decrease every year since 2000. Not a stat that we hear too often but I'm fairly sure that's the latest I saw.

Our relationship with alcohol is changing a wee bit thankfully.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 24/08/2017 10:46:00    2037049

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