National Forum

Confederate Flag

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The GAA MUST ban this flag from EVERY ground on the island. It is a symbol of racist, white supremacists and don't insult us with this naive, 'we fly it only because it's red and stands for the Cork 'rebels". This fools no one. There shouldn't even be a debate given the horrible rhetoric Trump is coming out with defending these White KKK morons. Anyone flying it should be thrown out of the GAA if they are a member.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9693 - 16/08/2017 00:16:11    2033974

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A lot of people on here need to read up on the American Civil War Slavery was a part of it But so was other reasons Texas had a problem with the Federal Goverment not protecting them from attacks by the Mexicans Other states had a problem with federal taxes Would love to see the faces of the PC crowd when they would see black Southerners with the Confederate flag While we're on the subject of hateful emblems what do most of you think of Celtic Crosses If you look up White Supremecy emblems you will see the Celtic Cross Should the Union Jack be banned At one stage it enslaved half the world

cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 454 - 16/08/2017 01:30:15    2033985

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Replying To MesAmis:  "You'd hope that the Cork fans flying the Condeferate Flag are doing so in ignorance rather than making any wider political point.

In this day and age anyone flying that flag are either incredibly ignorant or racist. It's as simple as that.

It was the flag of the Confederacy which wished to protect an individual States' right to allow one group of people to own and enslave another race of people because they felt that that race was inferior or subhuman. The Confederacy felt so strongly about their State's rights to enslave other humans that they started a war over it. That is what that flag represents. There has been numerous attempts at revionist history to downplay the roll of slavery in the American Civil war but it's all BS.

It was the flag of people who thought themselves so superior to another race that they had the right to enslave those people.

The only reason I can fathom that anyone would wish to fly a flag such as the Confederate Flag is that they are completely ignorant of its meaning.

Hopefully we do not see it again in the GAA."
Mes could you not say the same thing about the British flag? I don't see people trying to ban that flag though.

The talk of flags on here lately is gone nuts.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 16/08/2017 01:36:52    2033987

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Replying To moc.dna:  "You missed the point, we are all aware of what the colours symbolise in the Tricolour, the point been if somebody finds it offensive as Loyalists do & complain are we to bow to pressure from certain groups & do away with it as suggested by the President of the Association, where do you stop ? As someone pointed out will the Palestinian flag which is flown at games be banned because of its association with things such as terrorism & homophobia or is it to stay as those who shout the loudest on these matters are left leaning & view the Palestinian flag as honourable, even flown from Council owned buildings in this State. So you see you can go on & on, till it comes to the stage where you just do away with flags. The politics of PC & appeasement are an agenda driven by someone who wants their ideals put first. The whole thing leads to an entanglement where nothing can be done. Cork Gaa fans flying various nations flags for fun are been used to make a political point, nobody is flying them to support political matters in Charlottesville."
Do you right wingers take a class in whataboutery, because that's always your argument. Either that or putting words in people's mouths.

It isn't about appeasing people who are offended by something. You're right if you always bowed to someone's offence you wouldn't do anything.

It's not all or nothing though, I think as a society we're able to make judgements on what symbols are and are not appropriate.

The only thing that matters in what the symbol itself stands for. The Confederate flag is a racist symbol, it's not even that subjective. In the context of Cork supporters use it is not racism but it's still a racist symbol being brought into a GAA ground.

I think we can quite easily ban outright racist symbols without worrying about falling down some super liberal rabbit hole just yet.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4193 - 16/08/2017 06:24:18    2033995

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How many people posting here know the history of the confederate flag and it's origins? Zero, I'd imagine, yet are making definitive statements about what it stands for. What about freedom of expression? The cork fans have been flying the flag since I've been watching Gaelic games, yet no problems until now? Goes back to my point about people knowing little about the flag.

galwaydublin (Galway) - Posts: 226 - 16/08/2017 06:37:01    2033996

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Replying To galwaydublin:  "How many people posting here know the history of the confederate flag and it's origins? Zero, I'd imagine, yet are making definitive statements about what it stands for. What about freedom of expression? The cork fans have been flying the flag since I've been watching Gaelic games, yet no problems until now? Goes back to my point about people knowing little about the flag."
Was about to make a similar point. If you look back at footage of Munster finals back in the 80s you see lots of Confed and Union flags side by side.
Why have people waited until 2017 to get offended about this when they weren't in the 80s?

RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 571 - 16/08/2017 09:06:17    2034014

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Replying To galwaydublin:  "How many people posting here know the history of the confederate flag and it's origins? Zero, I'd imagine, yet are making definitive statements about what it stands for. What about freedom of expression? The cork fans have been flying the flag since I've been watching Gaelic games, yet no problems until now? Goes back to my point about people knowing little about the flag."
By the same reasoning the swastika goes back to ancient hinduism. Imagine the uproar if it were flown.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 16/08/2017 09:28:55    2034019

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "Since seemingly waving a red and white flag at Cork games is no big deal, I think English and Northern Irish flags should be handed out at the next Cork championship game at Pairc Ui Caoimh. Wouldn't it look lovely to see all the cork folk waving red and white flags.

Sligo fans should rush out and buy ISIS flags.

Give the Armagh fans orange order and Afrikaans flags.

Kilkenny fans could fly Al-Quada flags.

Give Laois, Cavan and Monaghan folk Israeli flags.

Limerick and Fermanagh fans would look well draped in Hamas flags.

Ask the Vatican if Antrim can fly papal flags at their games in the new Casement.

Shur it's all a bit of harmless fun, not!!!"
and sure down fans can fly a swastika because its all only a bit of a laugh.......
maybe watch the movie "12 years a slave" as a starting point you ignorant cork supporters.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 16/08/2017 10:02:24    2034030

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Replying To galwaydublin:  "How many people posting here know the history of the confederate flag and it's origins? Zero, I'd imagine, yet are making definitive statements about what it stands for. What about freedom of expression? The cork fans have been flying the flag since I've been watching Gaelic games, yet no problems until now? Goes back to my point about people knowing little about the flag."
People have been complaining about the flag at GAA matches for years. The complaints are getting more traction now as people are becoming more educated about what the flag represents.

'Freedom of expression' is an odd turn of phrase to use about a flag that represents people who wished to deny another race their most basic of freedoms. Also if you believe in freedom off expression so much then you shouldn't have a problem with people expressing their opinions that the Cork fans shouldn't fly this flag.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13703 - 16/08/2017 10:20:25    2034041

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Replying To galwaydublin:  "How many people posting here know the history of the confederate flag and it's origins? Zero, I'd imagine, yet are making definitive statements about what it stands for. What about freedom of expression? The cork fans have been flying the flag since I've been watching Gaelic games, yet no problems until now? Goes back to my point about people knowing little about the flag."
The history isn't actually that important.

It's all about what the flag symbolises today, here and now in Ireland.

In an English speaking, Western country in the Information Age of the overwhelming meaning of the confederate flag is as a symbol of white supremacy.

It's not a question of freedom of expression, the GAA has the prerogative to enforce its rules on patrons attending its games.

I am free to drink alcohol outside of Croke Park yet am not permitted to bring it into the stadium, that's not an affront to my personal liberties, that's just part of the rules of attendance.

The banning of symbols is not without precedent in the GAA, David Gough wasn't permitted to wear his rainbow laces when officiating in Croke Park a few years ago.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4193 - 16/08/2017 10:24:19    2034047

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Replying To moc.dna:  "The PC crowd making a political statement out of this when the flag has been used innocently by Cork fans with a variety of other flags that have red in them for decades. Will they also ask for the flag of the Rising Sun to be banned next due to the actions of the Japanese towards POW's in WW2. Cork fans are not flying them to make political statements. We had the president of the Association suggest before that if things changed politically here the Gaa would consider doing away with our National flag & Anthem, in light of recent issues this week how long before we are asked to do away with it. The history of the civil war in the States & here are pretty similar & it seems that some want history rewritten & all association with one side obliterated. The history of most countries is not pretty or as in the States right or fair to certain sides, but it's there & was reality at a particular time. Trying to bury it will not change things. If the PC crowd start to discover that half of Gaa clubs are named after freedom fighters they might be forced by media & the political class to do away with them. If everything that offended anybody was to be done away with we would wrap ourselves up in a web of entanglement that would prevent people from doing anything. Individual thought & freedom of expression is been done away with by the PC crowd, once they get away with one item, they will zoom in on the next. Wait for the calls on our national flag & anthem to be up next as it will be linked with violence, terrorism, religion & offends others. Maybe we should have all Sligo flags banned as they have connotations towards ISIS flags & we don't want to offend anyone."
You seem to have an obsession with the "PC crowd". Which particular sort of equality annoys you? Race, gender, sexual orientation, disability.....all of them?

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/08/2017 10:27:39    2034049

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Replying To salvador:  "I've often seen the Palestinian flag at major GAA matches, a flag which represents an elected governance who's attitude to human rights is appalling. Without going into detail on the horror It is particularly barbaric and discriminatory in respect to woman and gay people.
Presumably it as seen as an Anti Israel flag by the people that bring it to Matches although I once spoke to a lad with one who just liked the flag.."
Why the Palestinian flag in particular or are you trying to make a wider point about Muslim attitudes towards women and LGBTQ+ people? Not having a dig here, genuinely interested.

For the record, I'm bisexual and it doesn't offend me.

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/08/2017 10:32:04    2034053

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Replying To cluichethar:  "A lot of people on here need to read up on the American Civil War Slavery was a part of it But so was other reasons Texas had a problem with the Federal Goverment not protecting them from attacks by the Mexicans Other states had a problem with federal taxes Would love to see the faces of the PC crowd when they would see black Southerners with the Confederate flag While we're on the subject of hateful emblems what do most of you think of Celtic Crosses If you look up White Supremecy emblems you will see the Celtic Cross Should the Union Jack be banned At one stage it enslaved half the world"
I think it's you who has to read up on the American Civil War and not revionist nonsense.

Slavery was THE reason for the war. None of the other reasons thrown in on top would have led to war.

There have been moves since the turn of the 20th century to try and gloss over slavery and try and convince people that the war wasn't just about slavery. This revionism has been quite successful, particularly in the south for obvious reasons as people want to believe that it wasn't about slavery alone. However that view of the war just doesn't hold up and thankfully more and more people are realising that the American Civil War was all about slavery and therefore it is stupid and wrong to continue to fly it.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13703 - 16/08/2017 10:33:23    2034055

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Replying To Jack_Sparrow:  "Who knew that the Dukes of Hazard were such racists."
Hop-dippity-dang let's do some faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast pointless driving! Ah that takes me back although I always preferred the A Team, Knightrider and Airwolf myself :)

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/08/2017 10:34:26    2034058

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Replying To cluichethar:  "A lot of people on here need to read up on the American Civil War Slavery was a part of it But so was other reasons Texas had a problem with the Federal Goverment not protecting them from attacks by the Mexicans Other states had a problem with federal taxes Would love to see the faces of the PC crowd when they would see black Southerners with the Confederate flag While we're on the subject of hateful emblems what do most of you think of Celtic Crosses If you look up White Supremecy emblems you will see the Celtic Cross Should the Union Jack be banned At one stage it enslaved half the world"
I've got a London GAA top from a few years ago that had large white Celtic Crosses on either shoulder. It's fine in the UK and Ireland but I wouldn't feel comfortable wearing it in parts of southern and eastern Europe where it's viewed as a white pride symbol.

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/08/2017 10:40:03    2034061

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The Aryan brotherhood which is a white supremacist prison gang in the US use the Shamrock has one of the symbols. Should we ban all GAA clubs that use the Shamrock that has that as their club crest?

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 16/08/2017 10:47:53    2034067

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Mes could you not say the same thing about the British flag? I don't see people trying to ban that flag though.

The talk of flags on here lately is gone nuts.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts:5632 - 16/08/2017 01:36:52   2033987 

The last Union Flag l saw at a GAA match was burned on the Hill.

The Confederate flag exists to represent a people whose only reason for wanting their own country was so that they could continue to enslave other human beings for profit.

There's a little bit more to the Union flag than that imo but I don't think your point takes away from the general point about the Confederate Flag.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13703 - 16/08/2017 10:57:06    2034072

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Replying To OLLIE:  "The Aryan brotherhood which is a white supremacist prison gang in the US use the Shamrock has one of the symbols. Should we ban all GAA clubs that use the Shamrock that has that as their club crest?"
There's a huge difference and surely you know that.

The Confederate flag has represented white supremecy since the 1860s.

The shamrock hasn't.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13703 - 16/08/2017 11:00:46    2034075

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Replying To OLLIE:  "The Aryan brotherhood which is a white supremacist prison gang in the US use the Shamrock has one of the symbols. Should we ban all GAA clubs that use the Shamrock that has that as their club crest?"
No of course not and I suspect you know that that is a ridiculous point you have made. The shamrock is a symbol of Ireland that got appropriated but those gangs. Just because some bad people take one of our symbols doesn't de-legitimize what the symbol is meant to mean to us here in Ireland, or indeed by most people around the world. By contrast the Confederate flag wasn't a symbol of anything else other than the Confederacy which seceded from the United States so that they could continue to own human beings as personal property. How can you not see that distinction?

the_walls (Mayo) - Posts: 495 - 16/08/2017 11:06:59    2034079

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I don't think the Cork fans initially began flying this flag as any sort of political statement. It has red in it, and is known as the rebel flag so that is where it probably stems from. Visually it is a nice looking flag. To many it represents slavery and oppression.....can I offer a solution?

Why not fly the the Star-Spangled Banner instead?

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11225 - 16/08/2017 11:09:25    2034081

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