National Forum

Galway v Waterford Final

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Replying To Ban:  "The good auld sweeper system - some look at it like the plague!

Do you think hurling would be in a better place if teams did not try to explore the opportunity to be at their most competitive?

Do people take it for granted that if your a hurling team you should play to a desired style!

I hope both teams play to their potential on Sunday. Waterford in comparison to most other top teams have a lesser panel of players so I admire their desire to be the best they can be and the fact that they are in the Final."
The thing is, at the present time Waterford have as good a squad of players as what's out there. They don't NEED to play the sweeper system but they think they do. They are as likely to have reached this stage of the championship had they gone man for man in every game this year and not just played it once (in their worst performance of the championship) and then abandoned it. If we beat them on Sunday, you won't see them playing their system much in the future.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1901 - 30/08/2017 17:42:16    2040834

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "The thing is, at the present time Waterford have as good a squad of players as what's out there. They don't NEED to play the sweeper system but they think they do. They are as likely to have reached this stage of the championship had they gone man for man in every game this year and not just played it once (in their worst performance of the championship) and then abandoned it. If we beat them on Sunday, you won't see them playing their system much in the future."
That must be debatable. For a start, no one can remember what this Waterford side was like, hurling 6on6 at the back. Since Brick went up the field, I think they've deployed the extra defender. If they played conventionally, where would Aussie line out? No6 maybe, but maybe not, lots of unanswered questions. Waterford are spot on to play the style that they're most suited to imo.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3410 - 30/08/2017 19:30:55    2040859

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Closer the game gets I can only see a massive Galway win.

therealtmo (Tipperary) - Posts: 1292 - 30/08/2017 21:12:52    2040890

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "That must be debatable. For a start, no one can remember what this Waterford side was like, hurling 6on6 at the back. Since Brick went up the field, I think they've deployed the extra defender. If they played conventionally, where would Aussie line out? No6 maybe, but maybe not, lots of unanswered questions. Waterford are spot on to play the style that they're most suited to imo."
Yes well we would need to have a peek inside that parallel universe where they don't play their system to be able to resolve the debate but I'm convinced of it anyway. I think No.6 is Gleeson's best position so that's where I'd have him play in an orthodox system. I don't blame them either for playing a system that they have mastered down to a fine art but I hope we'll send them back to the drawing board with it on Sunday!

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1901 - 30/08/2017 21:28:52    2040895

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Replying To grellans89:  "Excellent analysis"
It's complete rubbish. Waterford have never won or lost a game because of a system and likewise teams that they play against. Either you have the players or you don't. Look at the football on Sunday the best organised defensive system only works when the team you are playing is just not good enough to beat you. Every so called purist goes on about the system and nobody seems to care that hurling has no longer got any ground hurling and we end up in massive scrums to get the ball. Everything is now following football and nobody wants to play the ball unless they know exactly where it's going and with ground hurling that's harder to do. The days of open hurling are gone and it's nothing to do with a sweeper system.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1799 - 31/08/2017 00:32:45    2040956

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Replying To zinny:  "It's complete rubbish. Waterford have never won or lost a game because of a system and likewise teams that they play against. Either you have the players or you don't. Look at the football on Sunday the best organised defensive system only works when the team you are playing is just not good enough to beat you. Every so called purist goes on about the system and nobody seems to care that hurling has no longer got any ground hurling and we end up in massive scrums to get the ball. Everything is now following football and nobody wants to play the ball unless they know exactly where it's going and with ground hurling that's harder to do. The days of open hurling are gone and it's nothing to do with a sweeper system."
Very true about the demise of ground hurling and other points well argued.

I long for Offaly of the 90s sometimes, but it's nostalgia based on my age!!

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 31/08/2017 03:02:31    2040963

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I have always had a soft spot for Waterford, I lived in that part of the World for 14 yrs & my next door neighbor's only worry in life is that he would die before seeing Waterford win another All Ireland.
Sadly I was back there 6 months ago at his funeral and he will be very much on my mind should the Deise prevail on Sunday.

I love the way Galway play the game, and I feel it would be an absolute travesty if Joe Canning was to end his career without an All Ireland medal.
So I will celebrate with whoever wins this Sunday.
If I was a betting man,which I'm not I would say Galway but either way I'm really looking forward to this game & of course to the little matter of the minor game, in which I have a more partisan interest.

corkcelt (Cork) - Posts: 4388 - 31/08/2017 09:35:20    2041011

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Really looking forward to this game , I'll be delighted for whoever wins but I think Galway will win

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 31/08/2017 10:17:24    2041035

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Replying To zinny:  "It's complete rubbish. Waterford have never won or lost a game because of a system and likewise teams that they play against. Either you have the players or you don't. Look at the football on Sunday the best organised defensive system only works when the team you are playing is just not good enough to beat you. Every so called purist goes on about the system and nobody seems to care that hurling has no longer got any ground hurling and we end up in massive scrums to get the ball. Everything is now following football and nobody wants to play the ball unless they know exactly where it's going and with ground hurling that's harder to do. The days of open hurling are gone and it's nothing to do with a sweeper system."
Maybe if you read the post I was referring to and understood the word analysis you would notice the original poster made no point related to what you said, he was reviewing the semi final hence the word analysis

grellans89 (Galway) - Posts: 257 - 31/08/2017 10:44:41    2041044

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The more I think about this the more I see Waterford winning. Galway's form has levelled off since the League final, where as no one can deny that Waterford have been on an upward curve since the Munster semi final. They'll be the team going in with the confidence, with all most all of their players form improving as the year has gone on. A number of the Galway players and subs haven't had the same upward curve. Canning will gain confidence from his excellent 15 mins against Tipp but he hasn't had a good summer by his own standards. The two Cooney's and Whelan will need to be at their best but who knows...someone like Flynn or Mannion could be the hero as they certainly have the ability. I've been disappointed with Gleeson also this summer but I think he will cause McInerney huge problems . He has the size and power that Bonner doesn't have. David Burke reckons who ever wins the midfield will win the game. That could very well be the case but Galway certainly need to keep Moran and Barron on the back foot.
Waterford by 2-3 pts for me.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 31/08/2017 12:33:15    2041113

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John Mullane to ride naked through Waterford if Na Deice win,
Will Ger Loughnane walk through Eyre Square in 'the new curates ' clothes if Michael Donoghue's men bring the Liam McCarthy across the Shannon.

Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 503 - 31/08/2017 13:38:44    2041150

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Replying To Curlew66:  "John Mullane to ride naked through Waterford if Na Deice win,
Will Ger Loughnane walk through Eyre Square in 'the new curates ' clothes if Michael Donoghue's men bring the Liam McCarthy across the Shannon."
Pity the hungover Waterford people having to look at that!!

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 31/08/2017 14:07:21    2041166

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Replying To grellans89:  "Maybe if you read the post I was referring to and understood the word analysis you would notice the original poster made no point related to what you said, he was reviewing the semi final hence the word analysis"
Very true
Zinny opens with a Statement "complete rubbish" and then argues with more or less has the exact same points that I originally made to which you kindly responded. Basically that it wasn't the sweeper system that undone Cork.
If you are going to quote other Statements and pass judgement at least know what is going on !!

Cornerback1977 (Cork) - Posts: 67 - 31/08/2017 14:21:56    2041173

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a refreshing change of finalists and it is hard to know which direction the mcarthy cup is heading, south or west. lets hope it's a good final with the talking points being the skill levels and the pace and intensity of the game. After sitting in the Hogan last week watchin tyrone capitulate to Dublin i'm in the cussack this week knowing that both teams are going to at least play hurling. safe travels to all and good luck to both teams

bulmccabe (Tyrone) - Posts: 361 - 31/08/2017 15:00:21    2041188

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Is Derek McGrath a relation of Ken and Eoin McGath? He has the look of Ken a bit, i think anyway.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 31/08/2017 19:26:53    2041304

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Replying To tiobraid:  "The more I think about this the more I see Waterford winning. Galway's form has levelled off since the League final, where as no one can deny that Waterford have been on an upward curve since the Munster semi final. They'll be the team going in with the confidence, with all most all of their players form improving as the year has gone on. A number of the Galway players and subs haven't had the same upward curve. Canning will gain confidence from his excellent 15 mins against Tipp but he hasn't had a good summer by his own standards. The two Cooney's and Whelan will need to be at their best but who knows...someone like Flynn or Mannion could be the hero as they certainly have the ability. I've been disappointed with Gleeson also this summer but I think he will cause McInerney huge problems . He has the size and power that Bonner doesn't have. David Burke reckons who ever wins the midfield will win the game. That could very well be the case but Galway certainly need to keep Moran and Barron on the back foot.
Waterford by 2-3 pts for me."
Galway beating Tipp by 16 points in the league final was a freak result. Nobody thinks that was a true measure of Galway's worth at the time and it is unrealistic to measure their championship performances by that yardstick. I feel Galway have been quite consistent throughout the championship and I see a few significant improvements from previous years: a greater spread of scoring from the forwards, a more solid defensive unit, and more physical and mental toughness for example. That said, I see the final as being a close 50-50 battle and they will have to be at their best to win.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 996 - 31/08/2017 20:28:11    2041324

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Replying To Laois76:  "Is Derek McGrath a relation of Ken and Eoin McGath? He has the look of Ken a bit, i think anyway."
No nothing but himself and John Mullane are brother in-laws.

therealtmo (Tipperary) - Posts: 1292 - 31/08/2017 20:46:15    2041337

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Replying To Gaillimh_Abu:  "Galway beating Tipp by 16 points in the league final was a freak result. Nobody thinks that was a true measure of Galway's worth at the time and it is unrealistic to measure their championship performances by that yardstick. I feel Galway have been quite consistent throughout the championship and I see a few significant improvements from previous years: a greater spread of scoring from the forwards, a more solid defensive unit, and more physical and mental toughness for example. That said, I see the final as being a close 50-50 battle and they will have to be at their best to win."
Yes. Less dependant on Canning but having said that Joe got the clutch scores in the last 10 min against Tipp.

But they do look more consistent and mature alright.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 31/08/2017 20:58:26    2041341

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Replying To therealtmo:  "No nothing but himself and John Mullane are brother in-laws."
Thanks.

I knew about the Mullane connection alright.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 31/08/2017 21:00:39    2041344

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Replying To tiobraid:  "The more I think about this the more I see Waterford winning. Galway's form has levelled off since the League final, where as no one can deny that Waterford have been on an upward curve since the Munster semi final. They'll be the team going in with the confidence, with all most all of their players form improving as the year has gone on. A number of the Galway players and subs haven't had the same upward curve. Canning will gain confidence from his excellent 15 mins against Tipp but he hasn't had a good summer by his own standards. The two Cooney's and Whelan will need to be at their best but who knows...someone like Flynn or Mannion could be the hero as they certainly have the ability. I've been disappointed with Gleeson also this summer but I think he will cause McInerney huge problems . He has the size and power that Bonner doesn't have. David Burke reckons who ever wins the midfield will win the game. That could very well be the case but Galway certainly need to keep Moran and Barron on the back foot.
Waterford by 2-3 pts for me."
If it's all about 'upward curve', starting from a low base presents greater opportunity than starting from a higher base.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3410 - 31/08/2017 23:20:44    2041422

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