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Cork vs Waterford (Hurling)

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Replying To Gaillimh_Abu:  "Gleason looked lost today. I was surprised that he was not moved to centre back for the second half. Waterford had no shape to them overall. I thought they would be serious all-Ireland contenders this year but that was a brutal performance."
Liam McCarthy is being sent west tonight, no point waiting till Sept. The back door is the hardest route it ever has being. Some teams in it now.
Might be early to call this but it looks like maybe this Waterford team hit its peak in last years semi final.

therealtmo (Tipperary) - Posts: 1292 - 18/06/2017 18:45:36    2001281

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Both teams will want Thurles......

PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 18/06/2017 18:52:55    2001285

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Replying To bloodyban:  "Final in The Gaelic Grounds boys. If it was Waterford v Clare it woukd have been Thurles. Fairs fair Thurles has been used 3 times already this Munster championship season."
It's Thurles. Was announced within a minute of the final whistle.

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 18/06/2017 19:00:58    2001294

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the roving role which gleeson takes up is pointless.anchor the defence or the attack.one or other.
cork were by far the better team,but Waterford were so bad they weren't challenged.clare will test them.
another poor game today....only cork tipp has been worth watching in the championship which strangles an open draw that the championship needs.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 18/06/2017 19:39:57    2001328

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2 - 3 years ago Waterford would have scored most of those wides. They used to be able to hit it over the bar from midfield.
Patrick Horgan had a very good game. When Horgan does well, Cork does well.

mikeyjoe (USA) - Posts: 415 - 18/06/2017 19:50:27    2001332

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Cork have to be favourites for the final but Clare could crash the party yet. Cork backs look pretty good especially attacking the ball but if like to see them put under more pressure. There's goals to be got I feel. Still could be a great final if Clare improve their puck outs and stay economical with their shooting

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 18/06/2017 20:33:05    2001363

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Replying To therealtmo:  "Liam McCarthy is being sent west tonight, no point waiting till Sept. The back door is the hardest route it ever has being. Some teams in it now.
Might be early to call this but it looks like maybe this Waterford team hit its peak in last years semi final."
Silly statement. Liam McCarthy is not heading West tonight, nor may he in September. This year's hurling Championship is shaping up to be a classic. The back door qualifying rounds will be fierce. But, it could be the making of some teams. Waterford had their first outing today and will be much improved next time. Tipp, after losing to Cork in a thriller, will be raring to go. Kilkenny, I'm unsure about, but never write them off. To me any of them two, plus Limerick, are the favourites to go through to the quarter finals. The back door can either drain a team, or give them a chance to iron out problems and make them the highly competitive. To get to the semi-finals, they will have to play three games on: 1st July, 8th July and 23rd July. I'll stick my neck out now and say, the winner of this year's AI will come through the back door.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2443 - 18/06/2017 20:58:34    2001384

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It was roasting in Thurles today, I have been attending Munster Championship games for over 60 years and whilst there must have been hotter days I can't remember any.
The heat must have taken it's toll on the players & given the conditions I think we witnessed a very decent game.
Obviously delighted with win and the fact we are guaranteed at least a quarter final game. I still think the All Ireland will be either Tipp or Galway but at least Cork are now back on the hurling map as a serious outfit that no one will take for granted.
Waterford's tactics are now confusing themselves more than the opposition. When Cork went down to 14 there was 8 minutes on the clock plus a good bit of injury time and there was just 4 points in it. From what I could see Waterford just kept the same shape right up to the end.
They have plenty of good players, why don't they back themselves to go man to man & go out and concentrate on themselves & just out score the opposition.

corkcelt (Cork) - Posts: 4388 - 18/06/2017 21:21:33    2001400

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Silly statement. Liam McCarthy is not heading West tonight, nor may he in September. This year's hurling Championship is shaping up to be a classic. The back door qualifying rounds will be fierce. But, it could be the making of some teams. Waterford had their first outing today and will be much improved next time. Tipp, after losing to Cork in a thriller, will be raring to go. Kilkenny, I'm unsure about, but never write them off. To me any of them two, plus Limerick, are the favourites to go through to the quarter finals. The back door can either drain a team, or give them a chance to iron out problems and make them the highly competitive. To get to the semi-finals, they will have to play three games on: 1st July, 8th July and 23rd July. I'll stick my neck out now and say, the winner of this year's AI will come through the back door."
For the winners to come from the back door this year they will need to get a soft draw in the first round. We seen in 2013 what a hard draw did to KK. Still fancy Galway.

therealtmo (Tipperary) - Posts: 1292 - 18/06/2017 21:29:54    2001410

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Nice summary Corkcelt, the only thing I'd question is everyone putting Galway as an AI favorite.weve beaten no one of note yet in the league (with all due respect to Dublin and Offaly), while Cork have now beaten Tipp and Waterford, and Wexford have beaten KK. I'd very much fancy ye're chance come September.

Good game today, some fierce intensity. Waterford seemed to have no clue how to move forward and having a man extra was wasted on them. Had cork taken either of their goal chances in the first half, that game could have been over much sooner.

festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3097 - 18/06/2017 22:07:47    2001440

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I was sure waterfords style would cause cork problems but cork are a team transformed. Against tipp in 2016 not one player put in a tackle in the game. That's not even an exaggeration! They're hitting hard all over the place now. They always had top forwards on paper, they now have top forwards who work like dogs. No doubt they are real contenders now.
Waterford are majority disappointing. They're main man isn't a team player and no one knows where he is playing. Brick offers little. Surely curran would offer more. Not sure they will turn it around but it appears they cancelled club games and maybe that was a mistake.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 18/06/2017 22:23:23    2001450

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When Cork went down to 14 there was 8 minutes on the clock plus a good bit of injury time and there was just 4 points in it. From what I could see Waterford just kept the same shape right up to the end.
They have plenty of good players, why don't they back themselves to go man to man & go out and concentrate on themselves & just out score the opposition.

corkcelt (Cork) - Posts:4327 - 18/06/2017 21:21:33 2001400

I never saw the game. It disappoints me to hear what you have to say about Waterford, and it begs questions about the management and coaching. Last year, after dilly-dallying with various formations, they finally decided to play man to man against Kilkenny in the semi-final. And although they lost after a replay, in two closely fought games, they hurled brilliantly. I was so impressed I backed them, at the beginning of the year to win the AI. It would be interesting hear some Waterford supporters views.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2443 - 18/06/2017 22:25:57    2001455

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Replying To corkcelt:  "It was roasting in Thurles today, I have been attending Munster Championship games for over 60 years and whilst there must have been hotter days I can't remember any.
The heat must have taken it's toll on the players & given the conditions I think we witnessed a very decent game.
Obviously delighted with win and the fact we are guaranteed at least a quarter final game. I still think the All Ireland will be either Tipp or Galway but at least Cork are now back on the hurling map as a serious outfit that no one will take for granted.
Waterford's tactics are now confusing themselves more than the opposition. When Cork went down to 14 there was 8 minutes on the clock plus a good bit of injury time and there was just 4 points in it. From what I could see Waterford just kept the same shape right up to the end.
They have plenty of good players, why don't they back themselves to go man to man & go out and concentrate on themselves & just out score the opposition."
Crazy stuff Corkcelt, at one point in the closing stages I think Cork had 6 backs picking up 4 forwards.

Meanwhile you had three Waterford men out around midfield in a line making five yard hand passes from the 1st to 2nd to 3rd followed by ball in, mopped up by cork with the numerical advantage, quick counterattack and score.

Cork hurled like the experienced team and Waterford like a team of novices.

I know they had an 11 week layoff but this was their worst performance under McGrath. A huge backward step after two enthralling games with Kilkenny last year.

Take nothing away from Cork they showed up and delivered. Waterford were extremely disappointing. I was really looking forward to seeing them, this was their chance to make a big statement of intent and quell the rebels uprising.

Will anyone give Galway a game of it this year? No surprise to see daylight between Galway and Tipp with the bookies. I'm surprised we are second favourites and Kilkenny are 5th favourites. I'd nearly have Cork as second favourites now. Galway scored 30 points and the gas thing is all the talk in the press will be about Waterford and Cork. Killeen injury aside, could things be going any smoother for them.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 19/06/2017 00:48:35    2001536

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Cork should be huge favorites for Munster now. Both teams have very good forwards but our defenders would struggle against that Cork attack more than the other way around.

We have it in us to win, but it would be a big ask if cork maintain that form

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2471 - 19/06/2017 02:53:51    2001551

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I think Derek McGrath was a breath of fresh air to Waterford but a few years into his reign I'm surprised at how he uses Kevin Moran and Michael Walsh. Given the average age of teams seems to be going down I'd have thought both lads could be used as substitutes or maybe less central roles. Don't get me wrong, two absolute brilliant Waterford hurlers, but when Derek came on board he made a point of dropping some of the old guard.

I've always thought that Waterford played their best hurling when it was man on man off the cuff like they did under Justin & Gerald McCarthy. Under Davy and Derek McGrath there has been a lot of emphasis on defence and sweepers which limits their scoring power. I think you need to be going over the 0-20 mark if you want to have any chance of winning championship hurling games these days and Waterford don't look to be setup for that. If you look at what they scored under Justin in the 02, 03, 04 & 07 Munster finals (2-23, 3-12, 3-16 and 3-17) and compare to what they scored under Davy in 2010 and 2011 & Derek McGrath in 2016 (1-16 0-19 & 0-13) the stats suggest that playing off the cuff hurling suits them better and they win more playing that way.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 19/06/2017 09:33:07    2001606

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I was sure waterfords style would cause cork problems but cork are a team transformed. Against tipp in 2016 not one player put in a tackle in the game. That's not even an exaggeration! They're hitting hard all over the place now. They always had top forwards on paper, they now have top forwards who work like dogs. No doubt they are real contenders now.
Waterford are majority disappointing. They're main man isn't a team player and no one knows where he is playing. Brick offers little. Surely curran would offer more. Not sure they will turn it around but it appears they cancelled club games and maybe that was a mistake."
The big difference with Cork for me is that they now have defenders that make it tough for the forwards. For the last few years against the Cork backs winning the first ball was the big thing, once you had secured possession you'd almost always get the shot away. Not so now as they've tightened up massively and are getting hooks, blocks in that weren't there before.

Rebels rising without a doubt. A few months ago I'd have called a Cork v Clare game easily in favour of the Banner but after the last few weeks you'd have to make Cork favourites for the Munster title.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13703 - 19/06/2017 10:14:38    2001646

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Replying To bloodyban:  "Final in The Gaelic Grounds boys. If it was Waterford v Clare it woukd have been Thurles. Fairs fair Thurles has been used 3 times already this Munster championship season."
http://hoganstand.com/forum/FindPostPage.aspx?MessageID=2001274

I think so, too, even though it would be nearer for Clare.

Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 643 - 19/06/2017 11:01:26    2001672

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Cork this year remind me of the young Cork team who burst onto the scene in 2003 and decimated Clare in their first game in the munster championship. Get a similar feeling about them this year. They'll be hard for anyone to stop once they are on the rise and confident. No one plays hurling quite as smoothly as Cork. Love watching them play when they are on song

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4122 - 19/06/2017 11:01:39    2001673

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Replying To LohansRedHelmet:  "Cork should be huge favorites for Munster now. Both teams have very good forwards but our defenders would struggle against that Cork attack more than the other way around.

We have it in us to win, but it would be a big ask if cork maintain that form"
How did Clare play against Limerick? From the match report it looked liked McGrath and O'Donnell were causing all sorts of trouble in the full-forward line.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 19/06/2017 14:15:13    2001854

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "How did Clare play against Limerick? From the match report it looked liked McGrath and O'Donnell were causing all sorts of trouble in the full-forward line."
Limerick made a hero out of Shane O'Donnell. His running and finishing ability are known for 4 years but we allowed him to do what he is lethal at. If those runs were stopped at source his effect is reduced. I think this Cork team are way tighter than their 2013 team or Limerick. Their backs yesterday showed savage hunger, reminded me a lot of their teams of the 1980's.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 19/06/2017 14:33:26    2001866

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