National Forum

Kerry and the 'Black Card'

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What do posters think of Colm Key's comment in the Indo today He claims that figures show that - 'Kerry are the market leaders when it comes to league black cards - 25 in four years'. I find that amazing and hard to believe. I think it paints an unfair picture of Kerry's approach to the game.

neverright (Roscommon) - 20/04/2017 16:15:32    1981194

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Replying To neverright:  "What do posters think of Colm Key's comment in the Indo today He claims that figures show that - 'Kerry are the market leaders when it comes to league black cards - 25 in four years'. I find that amazing and hard to believe. I think it paints an unfair picture of Kerry's approach to the game."
The black card hasn't been around for 4 years?

jimbodub (Dublin) - 20/04/2017 16:19:52    1981198

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A survey of black cards handed out during the national league shows that competition winners Kerry received more than anybody else (25), followed by Down, Longford and Sligo on 22. All-Ireland champions Dublin were shown just nine.

jimbodub (Dublin) - 20/04/2017 16:21:38    1981201

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You know Kerry always want to be Top no matter what, Honestly a nothing story , its like when someone comes out with a we haven't had a penalty away from home unlike so and so , different referees , different playing conditions thus comparisons pointless , we can discuss single instances in matches etc but comparing black card stats don't see the point unless were looking for another north v south row , god we haven't had one of them since ???????????????

Damothedub (Dublin) - 20/04/2017 16:51:54    1981211

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Replying To neverright:  "What do posters think of Colm Key's comment in the Indo today He claims that figures show that - 'Kerry are the market leaders when it comes to league black cards - 25 in four years'. I find that amazing and hard to believe. I think it paints an unfair picture of Kerry's approach to the game."
People can come up with statistics to prove anything Kent. Forty per cent of people know that! These stats can be used for an agenda / to goad certain parties / to "prove" cynicism / to "prove" favouritism / to "disprove" favouritism ... / etc. / ... for no good reason at all! Pick whichever of the above suits and apply it. I can see little value in these stats without a lot more context.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - 20/04/2017 17:01:52    1981214

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Replying To neverright:  "What do posters think of Colm Key's comment in the Indo today He claims that figures show that - 'Kerry are the market leaders when it comes to league black cards - 25 in four years'. I find that amazing and hard to believe. I think it paints an unfair picture of Kerry's approach to the game."
What's so amazing about it?

dubarra (Wicklow) - 20/04/2017 17:27:13    1981222

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They're the League Champions and that's the only stat that counts for now.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - 20/04/2017 18:19:01    1981235

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I blame Tyrone for kerry picking up black

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - 20/04/2017 18:19:23    1981236

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Replying To dubarra:  "What's so amazing about it?"
Only the weaker teams pick up black cards when trying to stop the top teams. Maybe it will revert to normal in the c'ship.

neverright (Roscommon) - 20/04/2017 19:23:56    1981242

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So we played 8 games in the league and we got 25 black cards which don't sound right but ok il go with it , so that means we got on average 3 black cards per game and one game where we got four so you can only replace the first two black carded players so on those grounds we won the league playing with 14 men . WOW we're good.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - 20/04/2017 19:34:07    1981243

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I think one major weakness with the black card (along with the obvious difficulty for refs to police it) was the introduction of the extra sub with the rule. This favoured the bigger teams with deeper panels like Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, etc The black card impact on Dublin or Kerry of a black card is significantly less that other teams that have a tighter panel of players at the top level. If the sole aim was to cut out synical play, they should have reduce the number of subs to 4 when they brought it in.

BlastCalyle (Mayo) - 20/04/2017 19:53:31    1981249

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I think one major weakness with the black card (along with the obvious difficulty for refs to police it) was the introduction of the extra sub with the rule. This favoured the bigger teams with deeper panels like Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, etc The black card impact on Dublin or Kerry of a black card is significantly less that other teams that have a tighter panel of players at the top level. If the sole aim was to cut out synical play, they should have reduce the number of subs to 4 when they brought it in. BlastCalyle (Mayo) - Posts:177 - 20/04/2017 19:53:31 That is a fair point and counties with bigger squads, not panels...., will have big advantage but issue is there shouldnt be a black card at all. There should be a sin bin of 10 minutes in its place. better all round

ormondbannerman (Clare) - 20/04/2017 21:08:06    1981274

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Replying To ormondbannerman:  "I think one major weakness with the black card (along with the obvious difficulty for refs to police it) was the introduction of the extra sub with the rule. This favoured the bigger teams with deeper panels like Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, etc The black card impact on Dublin or Kerry of a black card is significantly less that other teams that have a tighter panel of players at the top level. If the sole aim was to cut out synical play, they should have reduce the number of subs to 4 when they brought it in. BlastCalyle (Mayo) - Posts:177 - 20/04/2017 19:53:31 That is a fair point and counties with bigger squads, not panels...., will have big advantage but issue is there shouldnt be a black card at all. There should be a sin bin of 10 minutes in its place. better all round"
If the sin bin is 10 mins in an 80 min game like rugby should it be only 8/9 mins in a 70 min GAA game?

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - 20/04/2017 22:31:11    1981290

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Surprising stat to be honest I wonder hat the ratio to games is. Good point on using the black card tactically, something I hadn't considered before, I wonder do counties actually do this. It certainly creates an ethical dilemma if your planning making a sub in the 55th -60th minute why not get the replaced to take one for the team in a crucial game to gain an advantage. Be interesting to see the average time of the awarding of black cards.

TheUsername (Dublin) - 20/04/2017 22:49:35    1981295

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Statistics are all well and good. But the real question how many of the black cards that have been issued in the wrong since it's induction. Monaghan from my workings received 3 during the league with two of them being issued in the wrong. I'm sure with every county they have got more issued in the wrong than right.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - 20/04/2017 23:59:07    1981304

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25 !!, sure it looks like Kerry are using it to give the extra subs a run at this stage

ctowers (Dublin) - 21/04/2017 06:31:13    1981321

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "[quote=ormondbannerman:  "I think one major weakness with the black card (along with the obvious difficulty for refs to police it) was the introduction of the extra sub with the rule. This favoured the bigger teams with deeper panels like Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, etc The black card impact on Dublin or Kerry of a black card is significantly less that other teams that have a tighter panel of players at the top level. If the sole aim was to cut out synical play, they should have reduce the number of subs to 4 when they brought it in. BlastCalyle (Mayo) - Posts:177 - 20/04/2017 19:53:31 That is a fair point and counties with bigger squads, not panels...., will have big advantage but issue is there shouldnt be a black card at all. There should be a sin bin of 10 minutes in its place. better all round"
If the sin bin is 10 mins in an 80 min game like rugby should it be only 8/9 mins in a 70 min GAA game?"]So 10 mins is grand. All the whingeing about black cards and cynical play. The sin bin when it was trialled was the best solution only for a few choice managers who rallied against it to suit their own agenda.

ctowers (Dublin) - 21/04/2017 06:34:41    1981322

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A black card offence in the last few minutes when a team is hanging on to a lead is not really punished by a black card. Let's be honest, in those circumstances, last few minutes, someone bearing down on goal, the sensible thing to do is to take a black card for the team. Any county would do it, unless they're habitual losers who don't know how to win. Of course, it only becomes a National Morality Story if Tyrone does it. The best way to stop black card offences is to *award a close-in free every time and give the offender a yellow*. That'll stop it. Assuming the GAA is serious about eliminating cynical / negative play, which I doubt. Also, a wider issue is teams running pointless time-wasting subs in the last few minutes to protect a lead. Everyone does it, GAA and soccer teams alike. But it's deeply cynical crap and I'd like to see it that there can be no subs in the last 5 minutes unless for an obvious injury.

essmac (Tyrone) - 21/04/2017 08:22:47    1981331

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Replying To essmac:  "A black card offence in the last few minutes when a team is hanging on to a lead is not really punished by a black card. Let's be honest, in those circumstances, last few minutes, someone bearing down on goal, the sensible thing to do is to take a black card for the team. Any county would do it, unless they're habitual losers who don't know how to win. Of course, it only becomes a National Morality Story if Tyrone does it. The best way to stop black card offences is to *award a close-in free every time and give the offender a yellow*. That'll stop it. Assuming the GAA is serious about eliminating cynical / negative play, which I doubt. Also, a wider issue is teams running pointless time-wasting subs in the last few minutes to protect a lead. Everyone does it, GAA and soccer teams alike. But it's deeply cynical crap and I'd like to see it that there can be no subs in the last 5 minutes unless for an obvious injury."
Unfortunately, that would be nigh on impossible to effectively police. How many players would "limp" off the field in the last few minutes to be replaced by a sub, only to miraculously recover for the warm down etc.? Tactical substitutions became a reality when the number was increased to 6 (and maybe even before then).

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - 21/04/2017 11:46:18    1981405

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Replying To essmac:  "A black card offence in the last few minutes when a team is hanging on to a lead is not really punished by a black card. Let's be honest, in those circumstances, last few minutes, someone bearing down on goal, the sensible thing to do is to take a black card for the team. Any county would do it, unless they're habitual losers who don't know how to win. Of course, it only becomes a National Morality Story if Tyrone does it. The best way to stop black card offences is to *award a close-in free every time and give the offender a yellow*. That'll stop it. Assuming the GAA is serious about eliminating cynical / negative play, which I doubt. Also, a wider issue is teams running pointless time-wasting subs in the last few minutes to protect a lead. Everyone does it, GAA and soccer teams alike. But it's deeply cynical crap and I'd like to see it that there can be no subs in the last 5 minutes unless for an obvious injury."
No subs last 5 mins unless a head injury , love it . I can see why every team wants to run a clock down but it bores the pants off me and its starting to happen a lot earlier than 5 mins in some games

Damothedub (Dublin) - 21/04/2017 11:51:37    1981410

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