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Forget chat for killing outdated provincials for a minute. Leinster has been a non event for years but outside of Dublin, it would actually be a competitive championship.
Yes there are green shoots at underage but in truth, the financial gap and physiological battering the counties have taken has destroyed moral of fans and players who probably wonder why commit to get beat by 20+ in a half empty croker. Hard to put your life on hold for that.
Now question for non Dublin fans. If GAA moved Dublin into Munster for three years to address imbalance, would you look ahead with the potential carrot of winning Leinster or would you feel it's totally devalued without the Dubs.
Think giving teams the space for a few seasons could re engergize the other counties and Dubs travelling down south would be unique. (No home games Dublin). Off to Killarney and Cork for three seasons.
shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 230 - 30/04/2024 09:28:29
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Ah stop.
It's tough enough being a footballer with Clare, Waterford, Tipp or Limerick having to deal with Kerry without landing feckin Dublin in on them too.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1585 - 30/04/2024 10:27:37
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I just always read these and think why don't we just have a better All Ireland organised with promotion and relegation executed in a fair manner.
Would a Dublin less Leinster be any more prestigious than a 2nd tier All Ireland championship?
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4269 - 30/04/2024 10:40:57
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Replying To Whammo86: "I just always read these and think why don't we just have a better All Ireland organised with promotion and relegation executed in a fair manner.
Would a Dublin less Leinster be any more prestigious than a 2nd tier All Ireland championship?" Yeah the Tailteann Cup is basically the Leinster championship now with a few extra teams thrown in.
shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 230 - 30/04/2024 10:54:52
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Replying To shaggykev: "Forget chat for killing outdated provincials for a minute. Leinster has been a non event for years but outside of Dublin, it would actually be a competitive championship.
Yes there are green shoots at underage but in truth, the financial gap and physiological battering the counties have taken has destroyed moral of fans and players who probably wonder why commit to get beat by 20+ in a half empty croker. Hard to put your life on hold for that.
Now question for non Dublin fans. If GAA moved Dublin into Munster for three years to address imbalance, would you look ahead with the potential carrot of winning Leinster or would you feel it's totally devalued without the Dubs.
Think giving teams the space for a few seasons could re engergize the other counties and Dubs travelling down south would be unique. (No home games Dublin). Off to Killarney and Cork for three seasons." This post comes with a sarcasm warning.
Dublin haven't just been winning Leinster - they've been winning plenty of All Ireland's as well.
An idea would be for amateur setup counties to play in the amateur Leinster championship and Dublin could go play with themselves in the Leinster Professional set-up championship and the professional All Ireland.
Competitors in the amateur championship could then go on to play in the amateur All Ireland series against the other provinces - with the winners of that crowned All Ireland champions. They would then get to play the winners of the Professional championship to become world champions.
On a less sarcastic note - there are well documented problems with increasing spend in preparation of county teams. There is quite a large disparity there. Close the gap off the pitch and the on-field gap will close too.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 305 - 30/04/2024 11:21:25
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Replying To shaggykev: "Forget chat for killing outdated provincials for a minute. Leinster has been a non event for years but outside of Dublin, it would actually be a competitive championship.
Yes there are green shoots at underage but in truth, the financial gap and physiological battering the counties have taken has destroyed moral of fans and players who probably wonder why commit to get beat by 20+ in a half empty croker. Hard to put your life on hold for that.
Now question for non Dublin fans. If GAA moved Dublin into Munster for three years to address imbalance, would you look ahead with the potential carrot of winning Leinster or would you feel it's totally devalued without the Dubs.
Think giving teams the space for a few seasons could re engergize the other counties and Dubs travelling down south would be unique. (No home games Dublin). Off to Killarney and Cork for three seasons." Moving Dublin to Munster would likely kill that championship too, aside from Kerry who don't tend to peak until the latter stages of the competition anyway - nobody is getting within 10/12 points of them. Similarly if you put Dublin in Ulster, they'd win 9/10 provincial title. Derry might give them a game here and there, but they'd still win.
Munster works quite well at the minute, while Kerry are miles better than Cork, the Rebels seem to be able to give them a good game from time to time, and on their day - believe they could win. Clare are also good enough to beat Cork if they happen to knock Kerry out. Tipp won a Munster Final a few years back too.
You throw Dublin in there, and whatever hope there was in Cork and Clare will be completely sucked away. And like I said, Kerry are usually slow to get going anyway, so Dublin would likely do what they did them in the league too.
The elephant in the room is Dublin, they don't have off days, they are a complete professional juggernaut competing against amateurs. Every other teams seems capable of being humans from time to time and just not firing, since 2011 - Dublin have very rarely not fired. Virtually every championship performance is 10/10
Dublin have won 9 All Irelands since 2011, that's 9 out of 13. That's unprecedented. You're talking as if Leinster is solely the problem. Could Meath or Kildare do better? Of course they could, nobody is denying that. But Dublin don't get a game until the All Ireland semi at the earliest. They could maul 29/32 counties if they really wanted to. Derry and Kerry are probably the only teams capable of pushing them at the minute
hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 216 - 30/04/2024 12:04:19
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I feel the issue isn't entirely due to Dublin's dominance, but also due to the failure of other teams to step up. Now, this might be a poor example due to my failure to find a list of finals of the Waterford Ladies Football Senior Championship, but although Ballymacarbry have won it for over 40 years in a row now, they're not sauntering to 20-point victories in finals (to the best of my knowledge; they won by a goal in 2019 and needed extra time last year, although there was a hammering in the mean time it seems). So at least there's someone there to put it up to them and keep them honest. And this same Ballymacarbry lead the All-Ireland roll of honour, so they're not just ruling the roost in a faraway backwater of ladies' football. On the other hand, where are Dublin and Meath? The Ulster Championship works because the other counties bother to give it a shot. That might seem harsh, but it's true. It's true that Wicklow stood up and and were counted against Westmeath and Kildare, but where have Westmeath and Kildare and Meath been when they faced Dublin? I know Dublin have more resources, population, etc, but Meath's and Kildare's populations exceed those of Donegal, Kerry and Mayo, so that's no excuse. And as for resources, that's grand but at the end of the day it's still 15 against 15 on the field. The Dubs aren't battering their opponents with suitcases full of cash when they're out on the field.
Breaking news! God bless Twitter:
2019: Ballymacarbry 1-14 Comeragh Rangers 0-14
2020: Ballymacarbry 4.14 Stradbally 0.6
2021: Ballymacarbry 4.05 Comeragh Rangers 0.07
2022: Ballymacarbry 5-11 Comeragh Rangers 2-6
2023: Ballymacarbry 1-9 Comeragh Rangers 0-10 AET
Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1082 - 30/04/2024 12:26:01
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World Cup style groups for All-Ireland Championship with seeding based on League outcome. No two competitions, just one open championship. Scrap provincials or if people still want to play with their outdated provincial toys, scrap the current pre-seasons (O'Byrne Cup etc.) and have provincials as pre-season.
All-Ireland Championship final in August and price controls in place for tickets.
Game saved!
LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 496 - 30/04/2024 12:39:03
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Why do Dublin need to be in any provincial championship? Just let them enter the All Ireland series in the group stage each year.
dec (None) - Posts: 277 - 30/04/2024 12:44:26
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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú: "World Cup style groups for All-Ireland Championship with seeding based on League outcome. No two competitions, just one open championship. Scrap provincials or if people still want to play with their outdated provincial toys, scrap the current pre-seasons (O'Byrne Cup etc.) and have provincials as pre-season.
All-Ireland Championship final in August and price controls in place for tickets.
Game saved!" Play provincials through weekends through the league with no bearing on qualification to All Ireland. Finish last few rounds of leagues after provincials finish with some seeding positions to be decided in those league rounds. Will give most counties an equal amount of time between league and championship and not the differences in number of provincial games there now for different provinces. More counties should be pushing themselves to get to Dublin's level though. Their success can make other counties envious, but won't affect their standard of football.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7430 - 30/04/2024 13:17:47
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The Provincials are dead apart from Ulster and to a lesser extent Connacht, the way it is now is cluster **** imo.
Why not got to a Champions league style model? Group stages and then a knockout open draw from the quarter finals on.
You could have Dublin meeting Kerry at quarter final stage it would open the thing up imo.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2829 - 30/04/2024 13:30:19
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Replying To hyperache: "Moving Dublin to Munster would likely kill that championship too, aside from Kerry who don't tend to peak until the latter stages of the competition anyway - nobody is getting within 10/12 points of them. Similarly if you put Dublin in Ulster, they'd win 9/10 provincial title. Derry might give them a game here and there, but they'd still win.
Munster works quite well at the minute, while Kerry are miles better than Cork, the Rebels seem to be able to give them a good game from time to time, and on their day - believe they could win. Clare are also good enough to beat Cork if they happen to knock Kerry out. Tipp won a Munster Final a few years back too.
You throw Dublin in there, and whatever hope there was in Cork and Clare will be completely sucked away. And like I said, Kerry are usually slow to get going anyway, so Dublin would likely do what they did them in the league too.
The elephant in the room is Dublin, they don't have off days, they are a complete professional juggernaut competing against amateurs. Every other teams seems capable of being humans from time to time and just not firing, since 2011 - Dublin have very rarely not fired. Virtually every championship performance is 10/10
Dublin have won 9 All Irelands since 2011, that's 9 out of 13. That's unprecedented. You're talking as if Leinster is solely the problem. Could Meath or Kildare do better? Of course they could, nobody is denying that. But Dublin don't get a game until the All Ireland semi at the earliest. They could maul 29/32 counties if they really wanted to. Derry and Kerry are probably the only teams capable of pushing them at the minute" Dublin are not winning 9/10 Ulsters. Especially without home field advantage. No chance.
shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 230 - 30/04/2024 15:48:13
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Replying To hyperache: "Moving Dublin to Munster would likely kill that championship too, aside from Kerry who don't tend to peak until the latter stages of the competition anyway - nobody is getting within 10/12 points of them. Similarly if you put Dublin in Ulster, they'd win 9/10 provincial title. Derry might give them a game here and there, but they'd still win.
Munster works quite well at the minute, while Kerry are miles better than Cork, the Rebels seem to be able to give them a good game from time to time, and on their day - believe they could win. Clare are also good enough to beat Cork if they happen to knock Kerry out. Tipp won a Munster Final a few years back too.
You throw Dublin in there, and whatever hope there was in Cork and Clare will be completely sucked away. And like I said, Kerry are usually slow to get going anyway, so Dublin would likely do what they did them in the league too.
The elephant in the room is Dublin, they don't have off days, they are a complete professional juggernaut competing against amateurs. Every other teams seems capable of being humans from time to time and just not firing, since 2011 - Dublin have very rarely not fired. Virtually every championship performance is 10/10
Dublin have won 9 All Irelands since 2011, that's 9 out of 13. That's unprecedented. You're talking as if Leinster is solely the problem. Could Meath or Kildare do better? Of course they could, nobody is denying that. But Dublin don't get a game until the All Ireland semi at the earliest. They could maul 29/32 counties if they really wanted to. Derry and Kerry are probably the only teams capable of pushing them at the minute" I wouldn't agree they would win 9/10 Ulsters? The problem in Ulster is you have to bring your A game to the first match ( as Derry found out). In Leinster Dublin can put out their 2nd team and still win at a canter. The Dublin team is then fresh for the Group stages.
Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 323 - 30/04/2024 15:56:22
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Replying To hyperache: "Moving Dublin to Munster would likely kill that championship too, aside from Kerry who don't tend to peak until the latter stages of the competition anyway - nobody is getting within 10/12 points of them. Similarly if you put Dublin in Ulster, they'd win 9/10 provincial title. Derry might give them a game here and there, but they'd still win.
Munster works quite well at the minute, while Kerry are miles better than Cork, the Rebels seem to be able to give them a good game from time to time, and on their day - believe they could win. Clare are also good enough to beat Cork if they happen to knock Kerry out. Tipp won a Munster Final a few years back too.
You throw Dublin in there, and whatever hope there was in Cork and Clare will be completely sucked away. And like I said, Kerry are usually slow to get going anyway, so Dublin would likely do what they did them in the league too.
The elephant in the room is Dublin, they don't have off days, they are a complete professional juggernaut competing against amateurs. Every other teams seems capable of being humans from time to time and just not firing, since 2011 - Dublin have very rarely not fired. Virtually every championship performance is 10/10
Dublin have won 9 All Irelands since 2011, that's 9 out of 13. That's unprecedented. You're talking as if Leinster is solely the problem. Could Meath or Kildare do better? Of course they could, nobody is denying that. But Dublin don't get a game until the All Ireland semi at the earliest. They could maul 29/32 counties if they really wanted to. Derry and Kerry are probably the only teams capable of pushing them at the minute" I wouldn't agree they would win 9/10 Ulsters? The problem in Ulster is you have to bring your A game to the first match ( as Derry found out). In Leinster Dublin can put out their 2nd team and still win at a canter. The Dublin team is then fresh for the Group stages.
Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 323 - 30/04/2024 16:00:59
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The current Leinster championship should have a two tier structure at the very least. 4 team in the Leinster Championship. The remaining 7 counties in a Leinster Conference.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8016 - 30/04/2024 17:26:35
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Replying To brianb: "This post comes with a sarcasm warning.
Dublin haven't just been winning Leinster - they've been winning plenty of All Ireland's as well.
An idea would be for amateur setup counties to play in the amateur Leinster championship and Dublin could go play with themselves in the Leinster Professional set-up championship and the professional All Ireland.
Competitors in the amateur championship could then go on to play in the amateur All Ireland series against the other provinces - with the winners of that crowned All Ireland champions. They would then get to play the winners of the Professional championship to become world champions.
On a less sarcastic note - there are well documented problems with increasing spend in preparation of county teams. There is quite a large disparity there. Close the gap off the pitch and the on-field gap will close too." There's no shortage of money in your county. Land prices etc prove that. And if you want to go down the road of cash winning stuff - or not winning stuff :-) - then there have been no equals of the "effort" and "incentive" thrown into the Lilies in 90s from lads normally used to shelling out for Derby and Oaks winners.
Fact is you don't really have a tradition. Kildare is probably the most anglicised county in Ireland and had contributed almost nothing over the centuries to national movement. Not since Silken Thomas and he had only Dubs to support him in end up :--)
Was there a stone thrown at the Tans?
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2805 - 30/04/2024 18:28:55
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I don't think we'd win 9/10 'Ulster' titles, 5/10 would be acceptable if they even won that many.
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8622 - 30/04/2024 19:29:05
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Replying To shaggykev: "Forget chat for killing outdated provincials for a minute. Leinster has been a non event for years but outside of Dublin, it would actually be a competitive championship.
Yes there are green shoots at underage but in truth, the financial gap and physiological battering the counties have taken has destroyed moral of fans and players who probably wonder why commit to get beat by 20+ in a half empty croker. Hard to put your life on hold for that.
Now question for non Dublin fans. If GAA moved Dublin into Munster for three years to address imbalance, would you look ahead with the potential carrot of winning Leinster or would you feel it's totally devalued without the Dubs.
Think giving teams the space for a few seasons could re engergize the other counties and Dubs travelling down south would be unique. (No home games Dublin). Off to Killarney and Cork for three seasons." Amalgamate the two provinces and have an A, B and C Championship
A - Dublin Kerry, Meath, Westmeath, Louth, Cork
B - Kildare, Offaly, Clare, Limerick, Laois, Longford
C - Wexford, Waterford, Tipp, Wicklow, Carlow
B and C play off in January
Open for summer championships
6 A teams, Winner B & Winner C
Nice to see Dublin v Kerry as a provincial qfinal
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1157 - 01/05/2024 12:02:49
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Replying To BarneyGrant: "There's no shortage of money in your county. Land prices etc prove that. And if you want to go down the road of cash winning stuff - or not winning stuff :-) - then there have been no equals of the "effort" and "incentive" thrown into the Lilies in 90s from lads normally used to shelling out for Derby and Oaks winners.
Fact is you don't really have a tradition. Kildare is probably the most anglicised county in Ireland and had contributed almost nothing over the centuries to national movement. Not since Silken Thomas and he had only Dubs to support him in end up :--)
Was there a stone thrown at the Tans?" . . . I think you might need to brush up on your history a bit more. You might be able to pickup a free copy of Kildare in the revolution years in a Kildare library the next time you're passing though on the way to Kerry for your holidays.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 305 - 01/05/2024 12:30:28
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Replying To brianb: ". . . I think you might need to brush up on your history a bit more. You might be able to pickup a free copy of Kildare in the revolution years in a Kildare library the next time you're passing though on the way to Kerry for your holidays." Won't happen. It's Courtown that they go to for their hols
Selwyn (Meath) - Posts: 363 - 01/05/2024 13:27:52
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